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Boata Dippenaar - cricket's biggest underachiever

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
I dont think Dharmasena Gripper or Carlisle can come into the same category as they are untalented to say the least. As far as the Maskiriyenki or whatever is his name zimbabwe player, he hasnt had much of a career to say any thing. And why Rudolph? He is making whatever he can of his chances I feel.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
About Agarkar, I don't think he has underachieved, but I don't expect much out of him. He has a lot of talent, but lacks power.

Fast bowling is associated with power, though a lot of intelligence can make the bowler even more effective. Look at highly effective fast bowlers of the past and present, and you will see that they were tall, well-built and rather aggressive. Agarkar does not look like someone who can run through teams as a fast bowler. Look at your McGraths, Gillespies, Pollocks, Fanies, Donalds, legendary West Indian and Pakistani fast bowlers, the Lillees, Thomsons and the Hadlees, and you see some tall, strong men. As someone described, some of them look like gorillas in build and have arms the size of tree trunks. What Agarkar has to try really hard to do, is easy stuff for Courtney Walsh. This is why he's never really been a great fast bowler many want him to be, so if he's bowling well, it's a major bonus, like Ganguly or Tendulkar being in the wickets.

It's the Balajis and Yohannans who are underachievers. They can make the grade as fast bowlers, but don't really try. The same can be said about all those other gentle giants.

Karthik seems a slow starter. He's always had a bad match first, but then improves slowly.

Nehra is not helping himself by getting injured so often. Cut out the injuries and add more variety to his bowling, he'll be a much better bowler. Of course, he HAS TO IMPROVE his batting and fielding.

Many say VVS is one who deserves a permanent place and you cannot replace him with a Yuvraj or Kaif, but if he improved his fielding (especially in the outfield), running (more thoughtful, a little faster, more singles and 2's) and boundary-hitting (more 4's, a few sixes), you wouldn't need Yuvraj or Kaif.

Ricardo Powell and Shahid Afridi might think their only purpose of batting is to hit the ball hard and out of the ground. For them, strike rate and number of 4's and 6's is all that matters.

Lee is not even 1% fit! He's a much better bowler otherwise. When a bagful of wickets is needed, he has always delivered- look at the VBS final in 2003, the match v/s NZ in the World Cup, the NSW matchs when he was dropped for the Ashes- he got 21 wickets in 2 matches, a 5-wicket haul before Test recall. He can make a good Indian batting lineup look like novices, simply because it's difficult to play express pace. His no-balls and the dropped catches don't help him much.

Ian Harvey is effective in the role he plays. It has worked well for the team so far.

Mills seems to have a faulty, even suspect action.

What about James Troughton and Ian Bell?
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Pratyush said:
I dont think Dharmasena Gripper or Carlisle can come into the same category as they are untalented to say the least. As far as the Maskiriyenki or whatever is his name zimbabwe player, he hasnt had much of a career to say any thing. And why Rudolph? He is making whatever he can of his chances I feel.
Carlisle is certainly not untalented and Gripper isn't the worst either. Carlisle IMO is potentially the best batsman in the Zimbabwe team.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Arjun said:
Lee is not even 1% fit! He's a much better bowler otherwise. When a bagful of wickets is needed, he has always delivered- look at the VBS final in 2003, the match v/s NZ in the World Cup, the NSW matchs when he was dropped for the Ashes- he got 21 wickets in 2 matches, a 5-wicket haul before Test recall. He can make a good Indian batting lineup look like novices, simply because it's difficult to play express pace. His no-balls and the dropped catches don't help him much.
I'm sure he was referring to Test cricket and I'm sure that he's far better than 1% fit. If you can justify Lee's Test match bowling since his initial burst then you've got talent rivalled only by Richard.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Arjun said:
What about James Troughton and Ian Bell?
That's a ridiculous suggestion. They're 45 years old between them and they've played 6 games for England between them.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Arjun said:
Ricardo Powell and Shahid Afridi might think their only purpose of batting is to hit the ball hard and out of the ground. For them, strike rate and number of 4's and 6's is all that matters.
I was reading something about Powell the other day. It was trying to determine what went wrong in his career, seeing as he's full of talent. There was a comment that said that he didn't really get any specialized training after his youth cricket days and that may be why he doesn't seem to have the capabilities of other hard-hitters such as a Hayden or Gilchrist. All three of those batsmen hit the ball hard and can dispatch even good balls to the boundary but the difference between them and Powell is shot selection. Had somebody taken an avid interest in his career early on and drilled into him how to play cricket, he could be a much more prodigious talent than he is currently.
 
Craig said:
Its a shame for me to call Boata Dippenaar a underachiever, but I feel he is. I'm a fan of him, but it annoys me greatly that this guy hasnt lived up to his potential and ability :( :(

He has a good one-day international record for South Africa (he does average over 40 I think) but its Tests he has under achieved.

Maybe its confidence I dont know, but it does sadden me that a talented player like him doesnt make the most of his ability. Neil McKenzie for me as well hasnt always lived up to his potential as well.
i think he struggles when he comes across a bowler with a pulse
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
Craig said:
You could say the same thing about Allan Donald when he chose CC over his country.

I think he has the right to make a living playing CC.
AD may have picked up injuries in the CC that caused him to miss SA games, but he always wanted to put his country first. Probably the most patriotic cricketer bar Steve Waugh...
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
Re: Re: Boata Dippenaar - cricket's biggest underachiever

Shane Warne said:
i think he struggles when he comes across a bowler with a pulse
Hence the reason he averages 40 in ODI's... Good one.
 
Re: Re: Re: Boata Dippenaar - cricket's biggest underachiever

Langeveldt said:
Hence the reason he averages 40 in ODI's... Good one.
i think he struggles when he faces a bowler with a pulse.....in test cricket
:D
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Arjun said:
When a bagful of wickets is needed, he has always delivered- look at the VBS final in 2003, the match v/s NZ in the World Cup, the NSW matchs when he was dropped for the Ashes- he got 21 wickets in 2 matches, a 5-wicket haul before Test recall.
I note the lack of any Test Matches in there.

One would argue that in this recent series, a bagful was needed, but he didn't deliver!
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
When I said Lee I was only referring to test matches, and I did say only since his last two injurries. I would have still said Lee just prior to his last injury. Just at the point before hsi last injury, he was fully fit and still under acheiving in test cricket.

Carlisle has enormous talent and I find it odd that some say he is untalented. He has been plagued by injurries and when fully fit he oozes talent. Gripper actually has a lot of talnt, but neglects to even try to use it, and just spends long times at the crease. It doesnt really matter if it takes you 45 minutes to get off teh mark when you are an opening batsman, as long as you go on with it after this. I agree he should start slowly becuase thats how he is and the role he plays, but after he gets to 40, he has to kick on. As for Matsikenyeri, he has actually played quite a few ODIs with no fifties, and has proven his talent bya ctually doing well in the few (I think only two) tests he has played.

And I think Dharmesena actiually has a large amount of talent with teh ball, but tries to copy Muralitharan too much. Sometimes he looks like his own player, but if things dont go his way he bowls pathetically.

And regarding Agarkar, I said batting only. Arjun you may have been referring to other peoples suggestions of him, but you seem to have gone through my list pointing out other players from it.

And who is Ian Bell? Ive never heard of him.
 

Craig

World Traveller
marc71178 said:
I don't remember AD playing CC ahead of his country?
2000.

He didnt come to Australia with the South African team. ANd I dont think he was injured.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
Carlisle is certainly not untalented and Gripper isn't the worst either. Carlisle IMO is potentially the best batsman in the Zimbabwe team.
The problem with Carlisle and Gripper, much like a Alistair Campbell is they look good because we have seen them in such a depleted Zimbabwe side. When I watch some county games, players there start looking good too but they may not be the best in the international leve. Carlisle, Gripper, Cambell all have a test average of less than 30. Even their first class averages arent great. So I wouldnt say they are underachievers. They arent just good enough.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
I think the fact that they do average below 30 means they have underachieved. Gripper just needs to leanr when to kick on. he does have the shots, but doesnt know quite when to use them.

Carlisle just needs to become more consistant and stay injury free.

And how can playing in a depleted team make you look good. I think it makes you look poorer becuae peopld ismiss teh whole team. And tehy havent played that badly of late. They are rebuilding and doing a fine job with the 300 odd players they have at hand.... they competed with WI right down to the wire.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Prince EWS said:
I think the fact that they do average below 30 means they have underachieved. Gripper just needs to leanr when to kick on. he does have the shots, but doesnt know quite when to use them.
This was something which was once asked in the 'Ask Philip' column on Cricinfo - worst averages by a specialist batsman.

The table in 2001 was restricted to those who had played 50 or more tests and read as follows:


SE Gregory (Australia) 58 24.53
KR Rutherford (New Zealand) 56 27.08
RS Mahanama (Sri Lanka) 52 29.27
MG Burgess (New Zealand) 50 31.20
GA Hick (England) 65 31.32
MJK Smith (England) 50 31.63
GM Wood (Australia) 59 31.83
Rameez Raja (Pakistan) 57 31.83
BE Congdon (New Zealand) 61 32.22
SL Campbell (West Indies) 51 32.82
GR Marsh (Australia) 50 33.18

In that year, Mark Ramprakash reached the magical milestone of 50 tests (and a couple more to boot) - and he comes in at an impressive 3rd place

MR Ramprakash (England) 52 27.32
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Craig said:
2000.

He didnt come to Australia with the South African team. ANd I dont think he was injured.
Well he only played half the games for Warwickshire in 2000...
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
marc71178 said:
Well he only played half the games for Warwickshire in 2000...
I think he was blighted by an Ankle injury.. I cant remember what his stance was on the aussie tour, but it was the type of injury that seemed to cause him so many problems (Similar to Athers with his back)
 

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