Better player at their peak

[subshakerz]

Smith in England in 2019 >>> Smith in India in 2017

Really? I think given that nobody dominated Ashwin Jadeja like that I rate the latter higher.

 

[subshakerz]

The ones I posted/referenced? Do I have to teach you how to read now?

Y'know I don't see the point of your attitude, this is a very low stakes situation and I'm not attacking you. Just chill.

 

[R!TTER]

You can nitpick every single series like this if we're really righting off hundreds for having luck or being in the first innings. Point is, that series was pretty low scoring. Only Smith, Pujara and Rahul scored any substantial runs. No one else even managed to average 40.

It was brought up hence the debate, as far as I'm concerned Smith himself has played better across his career & probably shades Viv already as a test bat. These are all subjective comparisons any way, like for instance we rate S. E. N. A. stats probably higher than those in Asia. Like how many would rate Sehwag's second test double ton vs SL 2008 higher than his Adelaide ton in second innings Oz earlier in the year?

I think given that nobody dominated Ashwin Jadeja like that I rate the latter higher.

He didn't really dominate them, like I pointed out under pressure he failed 4(3?) times.

 

[subshakerz]

It was brought up hence the debate, as far as I'm concerned Smith himself has played better across his career & probably shades Viv already as a test bat. These are all subjective comparisons any way, like for instance we rate S. E. N. A. stats probably higher than those in Asia. Like how many would rate Sehwag's second test double ton vs SL 2008 higher than his Adelaide ton in second innings Oz earlier in the year?

Almost all of us.

 

[R!TTER]

That's just an example, probably very poor one at that. With Sehwag's there's few innings you can count outside Asia that's why. Let me see if I can find something similar for SRT.

Almost all of us.

By we I mean those of us from Asia rate our home team's exploits in Asia usually lower than those outside Asia.

 

[subshakerz]

I rate Tendulkar's 155 Chennai knock the best of his career along with the 1992 Perth knock.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

I rate Tendulkar's 155 Chennai knock the best of his career along with the 1992 Perth knock.

136 Chennai, 169 vs Donald(for purely aesthetic reasons) and 146 vs Steyn, better IMO

 

[subshakerz]

136 Chennai, 169 vs Donald(for purely aesthetic reasons) and 146 vs Steyn, better IMO

For purely aesthetic reasons, I prefer Tendulkars 96 tour of England.

There was something about the early iterations of 90s Tendulkar and Lara that make them so beautiful to watch.

Tendulkar, compact, with such a solid base yet pivoting around with textbook elegance and pinpoint exact delivery of the most difficult strokes.

Lara, all wiry, flamboyant, jumping, super timing like gunshots, crisp shots.

They were more slower and less elegant as they got older.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

For purely aesthetic reasons, I prefer Tendulkars 96 tour of England.

Fair but biases aside his knock at Chennai vs Pak, and his 146 vs peak Steyn and Morkel, his best

 

[subshakerz]

Fair but biases aside his knock at Chennai vs Pak, and his 146 vs peak Steyn and Morkel, his best

It's debatable. That 92 Perth knock was unbelievable for teenager. Case can be made for his 99 Aus knock. I think the 98 Chennai knock was most significant though. He legit became the undisputed best in the world and conquered the Warne myth

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

It's debatable. That 92 Perth knock was unbelievable for teenager. Case can be made for his 99 Aus knock. I think the 98 Chennai knock was most significant though. He legit became the undisputed best in the world and conquered the Warne myth

Significant agreed. In 99 Aus tho the only challenge was Mcgrath. Chennai 99 was a deteriorating 5th day pitch and he was batting in the most fluent way possible vs peak Saqlain and a magical Wasim.

 

[R!TTER]

The one in Cape town 2011 is probably the best I have seen. He really should've retired from tests quickly after that, the 100th ton drama did a number on his & India's performances! Had he played that WI tour & got that last ton I bet he could well have avg at least 10-20 higher in Eng/Oz away tests that season

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

The one in Cape town 2011 is probably the best I have seen. He really should've retired from tests quickly after that, the 100th ton drama did a number on his & India's performances! Had he played that WI tour & got that last ton I bet he could well have avg at least 10-20 higher in Eng/Oz away tests that season

That’s the 146 I was talking about

 

[R!TTER]

Yes & that age against Steyn it was a real marvel. The drop off post 2011 WC was also quite catatonic, if you can call it that. I guess the achievement & the relief made him relax/complacent at the end? I definitely know there was a relief post his last WC, with a win, although whether it also coincided with worse form/waning reflexes is hard to say. People also bring up this point with Sanga/Kallis/Ponting & pretty much in all the cases the drop at the end was steep, even for Sanga check his last two test series vs Pak/Ind at home - he did almost nothing as compared to 6 months back. If he played longer he would've avg a lot less much like Ponting/SRT last few years.

Would be interesting to see how Kohli, Root, Kane, Smith fare in comparison.

 

[Burgey]

Smith’s peak was insane agreed and one of the best ever, and he had some ATG tours like 2017 Ind and 2019 Eng. But the fact that Viv more or less faces no minnows, atleast on the level of the WI attacks Smith faced, or some of the flattest tracks ever at home, and coupled with Viv’s super high rate of scoring, I slightly tend towards him.

Aus mid-80s attacks post-Lillee were pretty bad up to and arguably including the one in 88/89. By the 91 series they were on the up but there were some shockers tbh. Arguably at a standard similar to the recent WI ones Smith had at his peak.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Yes & that age against Steyn it was a real marvel. The drop off post 2011 WC was also quite catatonic, if you can call it that. I guess the achievement & the relief made him relax/complacent at the end? I definitely know there was a relief post his last WC, with a win, although whether it also coincided with worse form/waning reflexes is hard to say. People also bring up this point with Sanga/Kallis/Ponting & pretty much in all the cases the drop at the end was steep, even for Sanga check his last two test series vs Pak/Ind at home - he did almost nothing as compared to 6 months back. If he played longer he would've avg a lot less much like Ponting/SRT last few years.

Would be interesting to see how Kohli, Root, Kane, Smith fare in comparison.

He was averaging close to 57 till the SA tour. If he would’ve retired post that, it would’ve been an even mote incredible record

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Aus mid-80s attacks post-Lillee were pretty bad up to and arguably including the one in 88/89. By the 91 series they were on the up but there were some shockers tbh. Arguably at a standard similar to the recent WI ones Smith had at his peak.

Although Viv only had a decentish record vs them. His real achievement came against the best. And he didn’t face them during his peak(1976-1981). I was talking with the context of the peak comparison

 

[the big bambino]

They were challenging for both, I guess that's hard to grasp.

So I'll try to make it simpler this time.

Sabina and Kensington were among the most challenging wickets for batsmen to score on runs on against pace. Hence challenging.
Bourda was challenging if you were facing spin, as it was a turner, but slow and unhelpful to pace. So was Antigua,. It was just a road.
So that's two that were not conducive to pave bowling.

QPO was iffy, not the fastest but the bounce wasn't the truest either. That one was a toss up

Did that make it easier for you to understand?

Just stop being dogmatic and passive aggressive and be a little more consistent.

 

[kyear2]

Just stop being dogmatic and passive aggressive and be a little more consistent.

I think I've already asked you to keep your opinions to yourself.

 

[the big bambino]

I think I've already asked you to keep your opinions to yourself.

Even the posts you've liked? There's that inconsistency again.