Better batsman : Ian Botham vs Imran Khan

[subshakerz]

What does bowling burdened mean?
Imran averaged 37 overs per match
Botham averaged 36 overs per match
I dont understand what this term implies

on topic...

Botham was a better batsman easily on talent, achievement and impact.
Imran was a very capable bat whose numbers look because of the role he played: sheet anchor who was undefeated a good many times
Botham actually scored big runs

Of the four all rounders Imran would come in third behind Beefy and Kapil as a batsman
(and a very very very narrow second as a bowler. Hadlee and he are virtually inseparable in terms of talent and achievement as pace bowlers)

Imran is easily a better bat than Kapil. It isn't particularly close.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Imran is easily a better bat than Kapil. It isn't particularly close.

Um, No. He is better but it's definitely close

 

[subshakerz]

Um, No. He is better but it's definitely close

Not saying there is a huge distance but it should be easily recognize who is better. Imran better conversion of tons, better RPI, batted higher up, more adaptable, better batting peak, and a notable better average.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Not saying there is a huge distance but it should be easily recognize who is better. Imran better conversion of tons, better RPI, batted higher up, more adaptable, better batting peak, and a notable better average.

Can't bring conversion of tons when Kapil has more of them.

 

[subshakerz]

Can't bring conversion of tons when Kapil has more of them.

Lol he played something like 40 more games and has two more tons so yeah I will bring it.

 

[honestbharani]

Haha yeah it often seems like people overrate Imran's batting and underrate Imran's bowling at the same time here.

 

[shortpitched713]

Everything else being the same, would it have been better if Imran had averaged 37 runs per innings with the bat instead of averaging 30 runs per innings?

Obviously. What is the point here though?

To be clear I'm comparing Imran to other all-rounders, all sub 40 bats over their careers.

I'm not saying he was ever actually as good as Viv or Border even when he was averaging over 50, ffs.

 

[Coronis]

Coronis is right

I usually am, but it is nice to be acknowledged once in a while.

 

[kyear2]

There's your bias again. What if the team isn't that strong and you need to draw tests?


Reminder again you falsified your ATG XIs to exclude Imran.

If you read what I was responding to in context rather than trying to pick at everything I said, you wouldn't be asking me that.

You are so caught up with defending Imran at every possible juncture that actually reading what was said comes in 2nd.

He said he was less concerned with how those skills were actually helpful to said teams, but rather......

I'm saying the helpful is more important than what was his peak potential and rating him on that of both. That made no sense.

Not about winning or drawing, but rather results in general.

You are a child.

 

[Johan]

I usually am, but it is nice to be acknowledged once in a while.

You're not usually right.

 

[kyear2]

Here is my breakdown so we can get to clarity:

Imran between 71 to 79 was a useful no.8 level bat. Better than a tailender.

Imran between 80 to 88 was a better than median standard specialist bat of that era along with being the best bowler in the world. Do recall in this time he played series as a pure bat too and scored well, like the 83 WC.

Imran from 89 to 91 was a true worldclass middle order bat.

Overall career, Imran was a borderline specialist level lower order bat based on the standards of a difficult batting era.

He is slightly below Botham overall because of Botham greater output and batting higher but deserves credit since he had a longer run of consistency than Botham and was better at sticking at the crease when needed, and was always improving his entire career.

Do you agree with the above?

From 80 to 88 he had an rpi of 31. That's not an above average anything, far less specialized batsman. And it was accomplished batting primarily at 7, with more innings at 8 than 6. Regardless of era, an rpi of 31 doesn't make you a good middle order batsman. Period. He literally had a rpm of 42 during that period. How is that " a better than median standard specialist bat"

He was also not recognized as the best bowler anywhere and was rated below Marshall and Hadlee. And you know this. And why you ask? Because everyone know he was cheating at home and basically tampering everywhere. He averaged 14 at home.

Overall bowling career a rpi of 27 is not near a test standard specialist bat, from any era.

Why is there the need to just make up ****? Like why?

The player you imagine existed, literally never did.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

You guys have been debating over Imran for like two years ffs

 

[subshakerz]

You guys have been debating over Imran for like two years ffs

youre right. I'm done now.

 

[subshakerz]

@Coronis @Johan @capt_Luffy

Do you think it's simply better for CW if I put Kyear on ignore mode? If our exchanges weigh down the forum, I would consider it. I'm not interested in all these rehashed debates with him nor do I think he is capable of good faith discussion on his issues of choice.

 

[Coronis]

You're not usually right.

Its ok. Baby steps. You’ll understand eventually.

 

[Coronis]

@Coronis @Johan @capt_Luffy

Do you think it's simply better for CW if I put Kyear on ignore mode? If our exchanges weigh down the forum, I would consider it. I'm not interested in all these rehashed debates with him nor do I think he is capable of good faith discussion on his issues of choice.

Ooh I like that I’m being tagged to help make such a weighty decision.

Its always amusing to see the banter with you two imo. It can liven up a dead/dying thread, but also can clog up a good thread. I’m not sure it ever gets to a point where its actively harming the forum atmosphere, at least in my experience. Its up to you if you want to continue it, personally I don’t put anyone on ignore, because I am interested in all the varying opinions, even if I have an opposite view and its clear we will both remain intransigent.

I wouldn’t advocate for ignoring him unless this relationship is starting to have a negative effect on you. If there are actual issues with how its affecting the rest of the forum I’m sure people won’t be shy to let you both know.

@kyear2 perhaps you should see this too

 

[subshakerz]

Ooh I like that I’m being tagged to help make such a weighty decision.

Its always amusing to see the banter with you two imo. It can liven up a dead/dying thread, but also can clog up a good thread. I’m not sure it ever gets to a point where its actively harming the forum atmosphere, at least in my experience. Its up to you if you want to continue it, personally I don’t put anyone on ignore, because I am interested in all the varying opinions, even if I have an opposite view and its clear we will both remain intransigent.

I wouldn’t advocate for ignoring him unless this relationship is starting to have a negative effect on you. If there are actual issues with how its affecting the rest of the forum I’m sure people won’t be shy to let you both know.

@kyear2 perhaps you should see this too

Thanks. For now I just told myself I wouldn't engage him on any topic of Imran but it gets hard since he is persistent even though I have asked him not to bring it up with me.

It doesn't affect me personally frankly I enjoy calling out his consistently contradictory takes but if the forum finds it redundant and diversionary I would avoid him altogether. I never put anyone on ignore, even on X I never blocked anyone.

 

[Rob Wesley]

Botham was a better batsman.
Imran Khan vs Kapil Dev vs Ravindra Jadeja would be a better comparison.

 

[sayon basak]

@Coronis @Johan @capt_Luffy

Do you think it's simply better for CW if I put Kyear on ignore mode? If our exchanges weigh down the forum, I would consider it. I'm not interested in all these rehashed debates with him nor do I think he is capable of good faith discussion on his issues of choice.

Come on. Subz vs Kyear2 is bigger than the Ashes.

 

[bagapath]

as batsmen Botham > Stokes > Kapil > Imran > Jadeja
as bowlers Imran > Botham > Jadeja > Kapil > Stokes