Best XI's ever put out in a test match by each country?

[NZTailender]

New Zealand: Lords, May 2004 (Richardson, Fleming, Astle, Styris, McMillan, Oram, Tuffey, Cairns, McCullum, Vettori, Martin)

 

[jimmy101]

Gotta feel that scripts would penalise the great 1970 South African side a fair bit.

 

[Days of Grace]

Yup, the January 1980 WI side averaged 657.

A question though. Most of the 1980 side would have missed a couple of seasons of test cricket due to WCS involvement. How much would that have affected their ratings in January 1980?

Quite a bit, since you lose a percentage of your points for every match missed.

 

[wpdavid]

Gotta feel that scripts would penalise the great 1970 South African side a fair bit.

Indeed. Even after their 4-0 beating of Australia, their players didn't feature highly in the rankings. Newer players, like Richards, had only played a handful of matches. But even the more experienced players lost out because they only played against the white sides.

 

[AndrewB]

That's not entirely true: the top SA players at the start of their last Test before the gap were:

Batting
1: Graeme Pollock (927)
7: Eddie Barlow (672)
19: Denis Lindsay (562)
=21: Trevor Goddard (548)
30: Barry Richards (517)
34: Lee Irvine (481)
=35: Ali Bacher (453)

Bowling
2: Peter Pollock (831)
3: Trevor Goddard (794)
14: Mike Procter (578)
23: Eddie Barlow (445)
41: Pat Trimborn (231)

Richards, Irvine and Procter unsurprisingly all rose after the match before dropping out of the rankings shortly afterwards.

 

[wpdavid]

That's not entirely true: the top SA players at the start of their last Test before the gap were:

Batting
1: Graeme Pollock (927)
7: Eddie Barlow (672)
19: Denis Lindsay (562)
=21: Trevor Goddard (548)
30: Barry Richards (517)
34: Lee Irvine (481)
=35: Ali Bacher (453)

Bowling
2: Peter Pollock (831)
3: Trevor Goddard (794)
14: Mike Procter (578)
23: Eddie Barlow (445)
41: Pat Trimborn (231)

Richards, Irvine and Procter unsurprisingly all rose after the match before dropping out of the rankings shortly afterwards.

I only meant that their individual rankings weren't an accurate reflection. Admittedly that isn't what I said though.

 

[Bolo]

Different issues with all the methodologies employed. Current rankings are too dependent on relatively experienced players, because it takes some time to build up. Peak rankings don't reflect current ability. Using a single discipline completely ignores the value of the second one, while adding both exaggerates it because of the asymmetric progression in points, such that Klusenar (33 bat 37 ball) becomes a much more valuable player than Bradman.

Nice to see all of them at work.

India: Lahore, Jan 2006 (Sehwag, Dravid, Laxman, Tendulkar, Ganguly, Yuvraj, Dhoni, Pathan, Agarkar, Kumble, Harbhajan)

This is my favourite curveball

 

[AndrewB]

Highest rated teams by batting (again, by total of contemporary rating of all 11 players):

Australia: Adelaide, Jan 2008 (Jaques, Hayden, Ponting, Hussey, Clarke, Symonds, Gilchrist, Hogg, Lee, Johnson, Clark)
England: Dubai, Jan 2012 (Cook, Strauss, Trott, Pietersen, Bell, Morgan, Prior, Broad, Swann, Tremlett, Anderson)
West Indies: Sydney, Dec 1984 (Greenidge, Haynes, Richardson, Gomes, Richards, Lloyd, Dujon, Marshall, Holding, Garner, Walsh)
India: Lahore, Jan 2006 (as before)
South Africa: Auckland, Mar 2004 (Smith, Gibbs, Rudolph, Kallis, Kirsten, McKenzie, Boucher, Pollock, Boje, Ntini, Terbrugge)
Pakistan: Melbourne, Mar 1979 (as before)
New Zealand: Brisbane, Nov 2001 (Richardson, Bell, Sinclair, Fleming, Astle, McMillan, Cairns, Parore, Nash, Vettore, O'Connor)
Sri Lanka: Colombo SSC, Aug 2017 (Karunaratne, Thuranga, Mendis, Chandimal, Mathews, Dickwella, de Silva, Perera, Herath, Pushpakumara, Fernando)
Bangladesh: Chittagong, Sep 2017 (as before)
Zimbabwe: Bulawayo, Sep 2001 (Campbell, Ebrahim, Masakadza, Carlisle, A Flower, G Flower, Whitall, Streak, Strang, Friend, Price)

Note that these are the rankings at the start of the Test; those for England and West Indies dropped quite sharply after their heavy defeats.

Highest rated teams by bowling (ditto):

England: Oval, Aug 1958 (as before)
Australia: Leeds, Aug 1975 (McCosker, Marsh, I Chappell, G Chappell, Edwards, Walters, Gilmour, Walker, Thomson, Lillee, Mallett)
South Africa: Durban, Dec 1999 (Kirsten, Gibbs, Kallis, Cullinan, Cronje, Klusener, Pollock, Boucher, Donald, Adams, Hayward)
West Indies: St Johns, Apr 1986 (Greenidge, Haynes, Richardson, Gomes, Richards, Dujon, Marshall, Garner, Holding, Harper, Patterson)
Sri Lanka: Colombo_PSS, Sep 2005 (as before)
New Zealand: Lords, May 2004 (as before)
Pakistan: Lahore, Jan 1983 (Mohsin Khan, Mudassar Nazar, Majid Khan, Javed Miandad, Zaheer Abbas, Salim Malik, Imran Khan, Wasim Bari, Sarfraz Nawaz, Abdul Qadir, Iqbal Qasim)
India: Hyderabad, Feb 2017 (Rahul, Vijay, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Saha, Ashwin, Jadeja, Kumar, Yadav, Sharma)
Zimbabwe: Delhi, Nov 2000 (as before)
Bangladesh: Chittagong, Dec 2011 (Tamim Iqbal, Nazimuddin, Shahriah Nafees, Mohammad Ashraful, Mushfiqur Rahim, Shakib Al Hasan, Mahmadullah, Nasir Hussain, Elias Sunny, Shahadat Hossain, Rubel Hossain)

 

[StephenZA]

Post 1994:
ND McKenzie
GC Smith (c)
HM Amla
JH Kallis
AB de Villiers
JP Duminy
MV Boucher †
M Morkel
PL Harris
DW Steyn
M Ntini

Pre 1971:
BA Richards
TL Goddard
A Bacher (c)
RG Pollock
EJ Barlow
BL Irvine
HR Lance
DT Lindsay †
MJ Procter
PM Pollock
AJ Traicos

1970's team stronger.
3rd Test, Australia tour of South Africa at Johannesburg, Feb 19-24 1970 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

 

[Bolo]

That RSA post 94 team isn't as strong as a slightly later one with Philander in and AB keeping.

 

[mr_mister]

I reckon their 90s side with Kirsten, Cullinan, Cronje, Rhodes, Kallis, McMillan, Donald and Pollock is a fair shout


wouldn't be suprised if their highest ICC rating side was around 1998-1999

 

[Bolo]

I reckon their 90s side with Kirsten, Cullinan, Cronje, Rhodes, Kallis, McMillan, Donald and Pollock is a fair shout


wouldn't be suprised if their highest ICC rating side was around 1998-1999

Trading batting quality for batting depth. Smith-amla-kallis-ab was pretty amazing when they were all good, but seeing test centurions down to 11 didn't hurt either.

 

[StephenZA]

That RSA post 94 team isn't as strong as a slightly later one with Philander in and AB keeping.

Probably, except I dislike the teams where ABdV kept; hindsight think it was a terrible decision.

 

[Bolo]

Probably, except I dislike the teams where ABdV kept; hindsight think it was a terrible decision.

I'm not sure if ab keeping was a good idea, but the team got stronger from the change. Except for his first series, ab was fine as a keeper. Hardly dropped anything, plus Boucher was aging.

 

[jimmy101]

Post 1994:
ND McKenzie
GC Smith (c)
HM Amla
JH Kallis
AB de Villiers
JP Duminy
MV Boucher †
M Morkel
PL Harris
DW Steyn
M Ntini

Pre 1971:
BA Richards
TL Goddard
A Bacher (c)
RG Pollock
EJ Barlow
BL Irvine
HR Lance
DT Lindsay †
MJ Procter
PM Pollock
AJ Traicos

1970's team stronger.
3rd Test, Australia tour of South Africa at Johannesburg, Feb 19-24 1970 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

Couple of really strong teams there Stephen. Although Kirsten should come in and open with Smith for the post-94 team. Duminy's spot is up for debate imo, with either Cullinan, Gibbs or even McKenzie able to fill that role. I'd also have Paul Adams over Paul Harris, and Allan Donald & Shaun Pollock in for Ntini & Morkel.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Couple of really strong teams there Stephen. Although Kirsten should come in and open with Smith for the post-94 team. Duminy's spot is up for debate imo, with either Cullinan, Gibbs or even McKenzie able to fill that role. I'd also have Paul Adams over Paul Harris, and Allan Donald & Shaun Pollock in for Ntini & Morkel.

Has to be a team that played together though. Otherwise Donald and Pollock missing out would be unconscionable.

 

[jimmy101]

That makes a hell of a lot of sense then.

 

[Zinzan]

Highest rated teams by batting (again, by total of contemporary rating of all 11 players):

Australia: Adelaide, Jan 2008 (Jaques, Hayden, Ponting, Hussey, Clarke, Symonds, Gilchrist, Hogg, Lee, Johnson, Clark)
England: Dubai, Jan 2012 (Cook, Strauss, Trott, Pietersen, Bell, Morgan, Prior, Broad, Swann, Tremlett, Anderson)
West Indies: Sydney, Dec 1984 (Greenidge, Haynes, Richardson, Gomes, Richards, Lloyd, Dujon, Marshall, Holding, Garner, Walsh)
India: Lahore, Jan 2006 (as before)
South Africa: Auckland, Mar 2004 (Smith, Gibbs, Rudolph, Kallis, Kirsten, McKenzie, Boucher, Pollock, Boje, Ntini, Terbrugge)
Pakistan: Melbourne, Mar 1979 (as before)
New Zealand: Brisbane, Nov 2001 (Richardson, Bell, Sinclair, Fleming, Astle, McMillan, Cairns, Parore, Nash, Vettore, O'Connor)
Sri Lanka: Colombo SSC, Aug 2017 (Karunaratne, Thuranga, Mendis, Chandimal, Mathews, Dickwella, de Silva, Perera, Herath, Pushpakumara, Fernando)
Bangladesh: Chittagong, Sep 2017 (as before)
Zimbabwe: Bulawayo, Sep 2001 (Campbell, Ebrahim, Masakadza, Carlisle, A Flower, G Flower, Whitall, Streak, Strang, Friend, Price)

Ironically, NZ beat that SA side in that Auckland Test if my memory serves.

 

[AndrewB]

England and West Indies also lost (pretty heavily).

There's some logic to that - if a team wins a Test, there's a fair chance their ratings are going to increase. There may be a case for calculating retrospective ratings by taking the average of a players' ratings for a year centred at a given match, or something.

 

[TheJediBrah]

England and West Indies also lost (pretty heavily).

There's some logic to that - if a team wins a Test, there's a fair chance their ratings are going to increase. There may be a case for calculating retrospective ratings by taking the average of a players' ratings for a year centred at a given match, or something.

Yeah exactly. It's expected that those teams would have lost the Test. Unless:

- They won a bowler-dominated low-scoring game so batsmen's rankings dropped
- A few of them got injured after the game/prior to next Test
- There was a huge gap to the next Test
- It was a draw