TheJediBrah
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Bro you're not listeningThere is nothing magical about 2000 to 2009 period
Bro you're not listeningThere is nothing magical about 2000 to 2009 period
Hayden became a regular in the team after 2000 (also established as a test quality batsman).There is nothing magical about 2000 to 2009 period in SA though so you don't need to limit your period to that just to exclude his 90s failing. You are just picking the best two of his three series in the country to make him seem better. He literally only has one series in SA where he averaged above 40.
Smith faced Johnson in Godlike form in a couple of series as well, worth mentioning.
I never stated that period. I said if Hayden played his entire career as opener in SA, he wouldnt average 40. His career was from 93 to 2008. Again, because we are comparing this to Smith's entire career performance as opener in SA. The way you are approaching this is to assume Hayden would debut at his peak in 2001. Why?Hayden became a regular in the team after 2000 (also established as a test quality batsman).
Also this was repeated many times by several people that Hayden from 92 was not as good as Hayden from 2000 to 2008. The assumption is that Hayden from 2000 to 2008 would average 40 plus if he was South African. He did that as a touring Australian over two test serises. Can't understand how this is so difficult for to process
Wouldn't average 40 in SA or as an opener in general?I never stated that period. I said if Hayden played his entire career as opener in SA, he wouldnt average 40. His career was from 93 to 2008. Again, because we are comparing this to Smith's entire career performance as opener in SA.
Career means highs and lows, not just a peak period you decide to snip. I understand he took time to establish himself as a quality batsman, but that time still counts.
In SA.Wouldn't average 40 in SA or as an opener in general?
The bowlers were better in the 1990s then the 2000s.There is nothing magical about 2000 to 2009 period in SA though so you don't need to limit your period to that just to exclude his 90s failing. You are just picking the best two of his three series in the country to make him seem better. He literally only has one series in SA where he averaged above 40.
Smith faced Johnson in Godlike form in a couple of series as well, worth mentioning.
There are a lot of assumptions here. Would Hayden have been able to even establish himself as an opener in SA conditions is one? Should we include Bangladesh, Zimbabwe and WI is another since we are excluding them it seems for Smith? Would Hayden perform as well against McGrath/Gillespie in SA conditions as compared to domestic cricket in Australia?The bowlers were better in the 1990s then the 2000s.
96 of 103 of Hayden's Tests played was in the 2000s. If he was South African he would've mostly played against 2000s bowlers on South African pitches, not against 1990s bowlers on South African pitches.
Most bowling attacks during the 2000s were worse then the ones he averaged 49 against South Africa during in the 2000s. India, Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, New Zealand (without Bond) and West Indies were all worse attacks. It's fair to assume he would've performed better against all these countries in South African conditions.
At worse he would've had to face McGrath/Gillespie/Warne (all of whom he smashed in domestic cricket) once and Shoaib/Asif once. Apart from that, nothing coming close to approximating Donald, Pollock, Schultz and de Villiers from the 1990s.
Because when they played on the same pitches in South Africa that's what happened:I find it strange how confident posters are that Hayden would outperform Smith in SA, when opening in such conditions is one of the most difficult tasks. At the same time, I don't begrudge posters who feel Smith's should have averaged higher here and downgrade him because of that.
Smith's career didn't end in 2006.Because when they played on the same pitches in South Africa that's what happened:
View attachment 32792
Smith's meaningful average in SA is 33 (not very difficult to outperform that)In SA.
I find it strange how confident posters are that Hayden would outperform Smith in SA, when opening in such conditions is one of the most difficult tasks. At the same time, I don't begrudge posters who feel Smith's should have averaged higher here and downgrade him because of that.
it is very undervalued. A player like Chandimal has a number of very good knocks on tough pitches in Asia in tough scenarios but since it’s either home conditions or similar to it none of it apparently matters. If we had such performances by a SENA batsman in pace friendly conditions it would lauded and deservedly soI agree that production at home is probably a bit undervalued
I mean everyone’s peak stats look pretty great do they not?Just a reminder (again) that Sehwag's overall averages are hurt by his very poor form at the end.
Between his debut to end of 2010, it reads:
81 tests
7,291 runs
55.23 average
83.16 S/R
vs Aus: 48.36
vs Eng: 31.50 - he seems to have an England problem, not a moving ball problem. He struggles vs England at home more than he does away from home.
vs NZ: 45.62
vs SA: 54.65
He's also one of a few to have a slightly less home skewed record - 38 at home vs 43 abroad - unlike someone like Jimmy Anderson.
Yes a lot of it is bashing at home - he actually averages more IN Aus (59) and England (39.5) than he does at home vs them, but very poor records vs NZ and SA granted. Part of which is just some poor starts to his career.
From 2003-2010, his record reads a staggering:
71 tests
6,670 runs
57.50 average
84.10 S/R
Yes some of those same weaknesses are present, but with a more even 35/37 home/away split, you're winning a fair of your home games if your bloke up top is smashing the ball around at a rate that is around about what our ODI openers today go at, if lucky.
I don't know about you but I didn't average 55 in Test cricket at my peakI mean everyone’s peak stats look pretty great do they not?
lol you kidI don't know about you but I didn't average 55 in Test cricket at my peak
Probably too late for tests but I can recommend a good batting seminar if you’re interested?I don't know about you but I didn't average 55 in Test cricket at my peak