Best Test opener of the 21st Century?

[TheJediBrah]

Is it though? Unless you are playing a vastly superior team, like India vs Australia in 2001, away victories are more precious.

Not if you're trading it with losing at home

 

[subshakerz]

exactly which is why someone who is just serviceable at home isn’t going to get picked ahead of superior options because he isn’t even as good as the norm?

Smith averaging roughly 40 in SA as an opener is par for the course though. But his greatness away from home is definitely something that made him integral to the team.

also not sure what your obsession is with plucking away at what made Sehwag himself, sure if you take away his strike-rate he becomes nothing special. His aggression is whole shtick and not just his run output

Yes, I even had a thread before that said that Sehwag is the GOAT batsman in SC conditions.

 

[subshakerz]

Not if you're trading it with losing at home

Not necessarily.

The point being, if you are going to have an imbalance in terms of your away/home performances, wouldnt you want it to be away?

 

[honestbharani]

Nah you

J'approve

 

[TheJediBrah]

Not necessarily.

The point being, if you are going to have an imbalance in terms of your away/home performances, wouldnt you want it to be away?

Firstly, no. Secondly that's not what this is about. It's not home v away, it's home v away in 2 places you go once every 5 years.

 

[subshakerz]

Firstly, no. Secondly that's not what this is about. It's home v away, it's home v away in 2 places you go once every 5 years.

To you maybe. To me, it is determining how capable a batsman is to perform in different conditions.

 

[Bolo.]

Firstly, no. Secondly that's not what this is about. It's home v away, it's home v away in 2 places you go once every 5 years.

Hayden has the same average away as Smith does at home.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Hayden has the same average away as Smith does at home.

Nothing to do with what I'm saying, I voted for Smith mate

 

[Xix2565]

The point being, if you are going to have an imbalance in terms of your away/home performances, wouldnt you want it to be away?

Ah yes, people should enjoy ****ting more in front of their home crowd than ****ting away from home.

 

[BazBall21]

Have given this some thought and Hayden vs Smith is something I’ve changed my mind on a lot recently. Going to call it a draw.

 

[subshakerz]

Ah yes, people should enjoy ****ting more in front of their home crowd than ****ting away from home.

Yeah because someone is more likely to carry your load at home, whereas away you get more of the glory.

 

[BazBall21]

Home runs are certainly important, but away runs comes in a variety of countries and conditions, indicating how balanced and adaptable the batsman’s game is and their ability in alien conditions. So yeah I’d say away records are more indicative of class than home records, they just aren’t the only required measure during evaluation.

 

[Xix2565]

Yeah because someone is more likely to carry your load at home, whereas away you get more of the glory.

That's not much of a defense for a poor home record in these kinds of comparisons though? And glory is a bit useless to bring up here considering these are the best in their roles so it's not like anyone's lacking here.

 

[subshakerz]

That's not much of a defense for a poor home record in these kinds of comparisons though? And glory is a bit useless to bring up here considering these are the best in their roles so it's not like anyone's lacking here.

It's a tricky one because what we are calling a poor home record is actually quite better than the other openers in the same country. I actually think that averaging around 40 in SA as an opener is beyond what Hayden and Sehwag are capable of, so it seems odd to dock Smith for it in comparison to them.

 

[Raz0r6ack]

Hayden averaged 49 in South Africa as an opener during Smith's playing days lol

 

[Xix2565]

It's a tricky one because what we are calling a poor home record is actually quite better than the other openers in the same country. I actually think that averaging around 40 in SA as an opener is beyond what Hayden and Sehwag are capable of, so it seems odd to dock Smith for it in comparison to them.

At the same time away specialists who can't reliably perform at home isn't suddenly a much better batter than the inverse, it just highlights the kinds of conditions they can prosper or suffer in. So for me it's hard to suddenly say someone who can perform away from home is automatically that much superior without much investigation.

Like whoever out of the trio of Hayden, G Smith and Sehwag is rated the highest isn't an issue for me, but the rationale of judging away records as automatically superior is.

 

[subshakerz]

Hayden averaged 49 in South Africa as an opener during Smith's playing days lol

Yeah but that was largely due to the 2001 series when Donald broke down, Pollock was injured and SA fielded their worst attack in the last 30 years. You had Paul Adams coming in third change.

In the 90s he struggled before that against Donald / Pollock, albeit in his early days. Overall he ended up averaging 34 which is about as well as he could have done.

 

[BazBall21]

I agree that production at home is probably a bit undervalued

 

[subshakerz]

At the same time away specialists who can't reliably perform at home isn't suddenly a much better batter than the inverse, it just highlights the kinds of conditions they can prosper or suffer in. So for me it's hard to suddenly say someone who can perform away from home is automatically that much superior without much investigation.

Like whoever out of the trio of Hayden, G Smith and Sehwag is rated the highest isn't an issue for me, but the rationale of judging away records as automatically superior is.

We just disagree as to how much of a downside Smith's home record is. I care more how a player is across conditions as opposed to the home/away binary. On that score, Smith is clearly better.

 

[Raz0r6ack]

Yeah but that was largely due to the 2001 series when Donald broke down, Pollock was injured and SA fielded their worst attack in the last 30 years. You had Paul Adams coming in third change.

In the 90s he struggled before that against Donald / Pollock, albeit in his early days. Overall he ended up averaging 34 which is about as well as he could have done.

Donald broke down after Hayden had smashed him all over the park and scored a 100. Ntini was also bowling ~90mph in that series and averaged 24 in South Africa. Kallis was still in the phase of his career where he was averaging under 30 with the ball at that point as well.

The South African bowling lineups Hayden faced in South Africa were better then over half the attacks that Smith faced at home.