Best spinner after Warne/Murali ( 90s onwards) ?

[OverratedSanity]

Also, what's this about Saqlain dominating India in ODIs on much flatter tracks than in tests? Pretty sure many of those matchups were in those weird low scoring Toronto series.

 

[Coronis]

95-99 he was. It is just Pakistan had a **** healthcare system, where snake oil practitioners have attended to a knee injury of an international cricketer.

Don’t knock it til you’ve tried it.

 

[Sunil1z]

That statement lowered the IQ of the whole board by few points.

It can’t get any lower because overall average IQ is already in negative because of your post.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Negative numbers can get lower though.

C'mon son!

 

[Sunil1z]

Also, what's this about Saqlain dominating India in ODIs on much flatter tracks than in tests? Pretty sure many of those matchups were in those weird low scoring Toronto series.

Kumble has identical average against Pakistan in ODI as Saqlain has against India ( 24 approx)

Yet we are made to believe that Saqlain wouldn’t have struggled against India on flat tracks when Kumble himself struggled in 06 and 07 tour .

 

[subshakerz]

Kumble has identical average against Pakistan in ODI as Saqlain has against India ( 24 approx)

Yet we are made to believe that Saqlain wouldn’t have struggled against India on flat tracks when Kumble himself struggled in 06 and 07 tour .

What's your main point?

 

[halba]

Axar Patel. Where is this option?

 

[Sunil1z]

What's your main point?

My main point is Saqlain has very few Test wickets and yet he averages near 30 . So if he had played more his career would have been similar to Harbhajan who isn’t rated highly on this forum.

Saqlain benefits from retiring just before his decline began . So people really didn’t see him struggling and see his overall career with rose-tinted glass. Harbhajan was averaging around 26-27 when his overall wickets tally was around 200.

 

[Migara]

It can’t get any lower because overall average IQ is already in negative because of your post.

It further went down.

 

[shortpitched713]

Why do we have to definitively either disparage or anoint a player when there is some limitation in the information set? Why is "we don't know", not an adequate answer sometimes? ?

 

[Migara]

Saqlain benefits from retiring just before his decline began . So people really didn’t see him struggling and see his overall career with rose-tinted glass. Harbhajan was averaging around 26-27 when his overall wickets tally was around 200.

This is also incorrect. Age of 28 is not decline for any spinner. He didn't even hit his peak in early 30s as most spinners do. Once Saqlain moved to UK he got a series of knee surgeries, rehabilitated and had a country career another 8 years. Have he got his knees sorted out in first place he would have not dipped in performance as much.

 

[Sunil1z]

This is also incorrect. Age of 28 is not decline for any spinner. He didn't even hit his peak in early 30s as most spinners do. Once Saqlain moved to UK he got a series of knee surgeries, rehabilitated and had a country career another 8 years. Have he got his knees sorted out in first place he would have not dipped in performance as much.

Harbhajan was dropped from Indian Team at the age of 32 . What makes you think that Saqlain wouldn’t have had decline if he played longer . All you are doing is mental gymnastics without any sort of data to back up .

 

[subshakerz]

My main point is Saqlain has very few Test wickets and yet he averages near 30 . So if he had played more his career would have been similar to Harbhajan who isn’t rated highly on this forum.

Saqlain benefits from retiring just before his decline began . So people really didn’t see him struggling and see his overall career with rose-tinted glass. Harbhajan was averaging around 26-27 when his overall wickets tally was around 200.

As mentioned, Saqlain retired very early because of injuries. Most spinners have their prime years after the age he was forced to retire.

And if Harbajan can average 26-27 in the 2000s then it kinda goes against your argument.

 

[subshakerz]

Harbhajan was dropped from Indian Team at the age of 32 . What makes you think that Saqlain wouldn’t have had decline if he played longer . All you are doing is mental gymnastics without any sort of data to back up .

We don't know. This is empty speculation either way. All we know for sure is that he retired due to injuries at an unusually early age for a spinner.

 

[Sunil1z]

As mentioned, Saqlain retired very early because of injuries. Most spinners have their prime years after the age he was forced to retire.

And if Harbajan can average 26-27 in the 2000s then it kinda goes against your argument.

Harbhajan didn’t average 26-27 after 05 . That is why my argument is correct . He averaged 38 after he hit 25 years age . Infact Saqlain retired just before when bowling average of many players started to take hit because of flatness of pitch.

 

[Sunil1z]

We don't know. This is empty speculation either way. All we know for sure is that he retired due to injuries at an unusually early age for a spinner.

So basically he was inferior to Harbhajan because he neither had longevity and nor he had awesome peak which is represented in his nearly 30 average .

 

[subshakerz]

Harbhajan didn’t average 26-27 after 05 . That is why my argument is correct . He averaged 38 after he hit 25 years age . Infact Saqlain retired just before when bowling average of many players started to take hit because of flatness of pitch.

Pitches were flat before 2005.

 

[subshakerz]

So basically he was inferior to Harbhajan because he neither had longevity and nor he had awesome peak which is represented in his nearly 30 average .

Nah he was better than Harbi but its close since Harbi is underrated and has more longevity.

 

[Sunil1z]

Pitches were flat before 2005.

They were . But after 03-04 , proportion of flat pitch increased massively . Every 2nd Test match had roads .
And the 2nd reason for his decline was because he reduced bowling doosra because people were accusing him of chucking.

 

[Migara]

So basically he was inferior to Harbhajan because he neither had longevity and nor he had awesome peak which is represented in his nearly 30 average .

No because he handed the famed Indian batting line ups arse back to them. Once in a while pacers have done it in India, but a spinner doing it was unheard. That series is good enough for me to consider him as a top class spinner.