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Best Attack

Select the best one

  • Total voters
    34
R

reyrey

School Boy/Girl Captain
Bolo. said:
Kk. Didn't know that.

That peak is nothing particularly special at this level. Everyone in this poll managed at least this. Several of the bowlers did significantly better.
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That wasn't his peak. It was 10 years of sustained bowling excellence which puts him on par with the other names in the poll.

It's also worth remembering Wasim went from net bowler straight to test bowler and was basically learning his craft on the job. None of the other bowlers had to do this. Also late in his career he was dealing with diabetes. Valid reasons to focus more on what he did during that 10 year period.
 
kyear2

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
PlayerComparisons said:
Except Imran didn’t really have a problem bowling on flat pitches or in any conditions which you can tell by watching him bowl. Having a balanced home/away split looks good on statsguru but doesn’t tell us anything useful for the ATGs most of the time.

Disagree on performing away helping your team more. That depends on the strength of your team.
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Besides Pakistan where did he excel on flat pitches, he didn't do will in India and that would have been the biggest example, outside of individual pitches around the world.

You honestly don't see the benefit of being almost as good away from home?
 
S

subshakerz

International Coach
kyear2 said:
Besides Pakistan where did he excel on flat pitches, he didn't do will in India and that would have been the biggest example, outside of individual pitches around the world.

You honestly don't see the benefit of being almost as good away from home?
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You flippant dismissal of Imran at home is noted.

In India, Imran had one excellent series in 1980 and one poor series in 87. Qualitatively not different from Ambrose in Pakistan which you consider sufficient proof of him succeeding in SC somehow. Or McGrath in Pakistan which you never bring up since you feel India is sufficient to show he succeeded in SC.
 
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kyear2

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
reyrey said:
That wasn't his peak. It was 10 years of sustained bowling excellence which puts him on par with the other names in the poll.

It's also worth remembering Wasim went from net bowler straight to test bowler and was basically learning his craft on the job. None of the other bowlers had to do this. Also late in his career he was dealing with diabetes. Valid reasons to focus more on what he did during that 10 year period.
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Not discrediting your point, but Marshall basically had the same scenario, but only had to perform under those conditions for one tour.

I don't think you should only focus on those 10 years, but it should be a serious consideration.
 
B

Bolo.

International Vice-Captain
reyrey said:
That wasn't his peak. It was 10 years of sustained bowling excellence which puts him on par with the other names in the poll.

It's also worth remembering Wasim went from net bowler straight to test bowler and was basically learning his craft on the job. None of the other bowlers had to do this. Also late in his career he was dealing with diabetes. Valid reasons to focus more on what he did during that 10 year period.
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10 years is your pick. Doesn't matter what length you want to pick as a peak though. 3 of the 4 bowlers with the best peaks ever are in this poll. He doesn't match them over whatever length you want to pick.

I do give him credit for longevity. But Hadlee and Imran are both better bowlers with similar longevity. They both had rockier starts, and while diabetes may explain why he performed worse, we are looking to pick the players who performed the best.
 
B

Bolo.

International Vice-Captain
The debate on the merits of home/away performance aside, wouldn't you assume a world XI is playing everywhere, with no home ground, and only give credit to home performances to the same degree you would any other country?
 
kyear2

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
Bolo. said:
The debate on the merits of home/away performance aside, wouldn't you assume a world XI is playing everywhere, with no home ground, and only give credit to home performances to the same degree you would any other country?
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If I understand you, basically home is only worth as much as any other country on your record.
 
centurymaker

centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
kyear2 said:
Besides Pakistan where did he excel on flat pitches, he didn't do will in India and that would have been the biggest example, outside of individual pitches around the world.

You honestly don't see the benefit of being almost as good away from home?
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You are making a mountain of a molehill. If someone is a cheat at home, do you think opposing teams are going to let it go? Ofcourse not!

They are going to avenge it by dishing out dubious decisions when he travels away... So if his home record is wrongly 2 points too low (thanks to home umpires), likewise his away record is wrongly 1-2 points too high..

Home umpiring was common all around those days. Let's not pretend it only happened in Pakistan. Maybe moreso in Pakistan but it was all around the world. And it was on tit for tat basis!

Let's take a look at a more modern instance, India & Tendulkar got crap decisions in the 1999 away series in Aus. Then guess what? Aus were dished crap decisions in the next series in India, which was the famous 2001 series.

So it was often reciprocated..
 
centurymaker

centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
There is a little difference between the top 6/7 fast pacers that you would pick a different combination each time depending on the prevailing pitch and overhead conditions. Thats because pitches and conditions do have the biggest say in a bowler's success. If conditions favor seam, you would go for certain ATG bowlers. If it is flat, then you would want a different combination.

If you want to have a fixed attack regardless of conditions, then you would want the most versatile attack and the one that covers all bases, rather than just going for your top 3 pacers when in fact the 5th/6th best pacer is only marginally worse but adds a lot more in terms of variety and poses whole different challenge to the batters.

So selecting a diverse attack is much more beneficial than simply going for top 4 pacers. So definitely won't pick both McGarth and Hadlee. Most likely it'd be-

Marshall + McGrath + Imran/Wasim + Murali/Warne
 
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S

subshakerz

International Coach
centurymaker said:
There is a little difference between the top 6/7 fast pacers that you would pick a different combination each time depending on the prevailing pitch and overhead conditions. Thats because pitches and conditions do have the biggest say in a bowler's success. If conditions favor seam, you would go for certain ATG bowlers. If it is flat, then you would want a different combination.

If you want to have a fixed attack regardless of conditions, then you would want the most versatile attack and the one that covers all bases, rather than just going for your top 3 pacers when in fact the 5th/6th best pacer is only marginally worse but adds a lot more in terms of variety and poses whole different challenge to the batters.

So selecting a diverse attack is much more beneficial than simply going for top 4 pacers. So definitely won't pick both McGarth and Hadlee. Most likely it'd be-

Marshall + McGrath + Imran/Wasim + Murali/Warne
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@kyear2s entire strategy is based on exaggerating these ATG bowling differences.
 
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