Best Attack

[reyrey]

Never heard of Wasim not being able to bowl conventional. He always could when I watched him. I just don't think he was as effective at it as the other top swing bowlers, for the same (main) reason I don't rate his reverse as highly. He put the ball in the wrong area for the delivery too often. He made the bats miss more than probably anyone else, but it didn't translate into wickets enough.

He speaks about conventional swing in one of the documentaries on Sky cricket. Him and a young Waqar had no interest in bowling with the new ball, but eventually they made a concerted effort to add that skill to be more effective bowlers.

Wasims record in the 90s by which time he was a more complete bowler (and before his powers started to wane) is as good as anyones. Averaged around 21 with a strike rate under 50 for that decade.

 

[Bolo.]

You hugely overplay this. His marginally higher economy rate was due to his uber aggressive approach of bowling fuller, drivable lengths, relentlessly chasing the edge. He wasn't quite a metronome like Mcgrath but I feel like describing him as a scattergun is completely inaccurate (The duke was the only ball he lost control with at times but even there as I've pointed out before, he ouperformed Anderson and Broad in their own conditions.). The guy had ungodly good control of swing at his peak , especially considering his outswinger moved more prodiguously on a consistent basis than any bowler I've seen.

You hugely overplay this. His marginally higher economy rate was due to his uber aggressive approach of bowling fuller, drivable lengths, relentlessly chasing the edge. He wasn't quite a metronome like Mcgrath but I feel like describing him as a scattergun is completely inaccurate (The duke was the only ball he lost control with at times but even there as I've pointed out before, he ouperformed Anderson and Broad in their own conditions.). The guy had ungodly good control of swing at his peak , especially considering his outswinger moved more prodiguously on a consistent basis than any bowler I've seen.

His height was always going to make him a bit more hittable than some.

The aggression was a choice though. He showed he was capable of bowling economical line and length spells when he wanted later career. But he did it for his body, not cos he thought it was going to be a more effective spell. It generally wasn't. It didn't make much difference to his average, but striking faster was better.

 

[Bolo.]

He speaks about conventional swing in one of the documentaries on Sky cricket. Him and a young Waqar had no interest in bowling with the new ball, but eventually they made a concerted effort to add that skill to be more effective bowlers.

Wasims record in the 90s by which time he was a more complete bowler (and before his powers started to wane) is as good as anyones. Averaged around 21 with a strike rate under 50 for that decade.

Kk. Didn't know that.

That peak is nothing particularly special at this level. Everyone in this poll managed at least this. Several of the bowlers did significantly better.

 

[subshakerz]

You hugely overplay this. His marginally higher economy rate was due to his uber aggressive approach of bowling fuller, drivable lengths, relentlessly chasing the edge. He wasn't quite a metronome like Mcgrath but I feel like describing him as a scattergun is completely inaccurate (The duke was the only ball he lost control with at times but even there as I've pointed out before, he ouperformed Anderson and Broad in their own conditions.). The guy had ungodly good control of swing at his peak , especially considering his outswinger moved more prodiguously on a consistent basis than any bowler I've seen.

Steyn was scattergun in comparison to other ATGs. Have you seen the others taken apart the way Steyn was by Warner, Clarke, Sehwag, KP and others?

His ER is well outside the mean as much as his SR is.

Steyn was a demon with the new ball but when he wasn't taking wickets, he was usually getting tonked around. However, the tradeoff was when he had his matchwinning spells he was quicker to run through lineups than most.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Steyn was scattergun in comparison to other ATGs. Have you seen the others taken apart the way Steyn was by Warner, Clarke, Sehwag, KP and others?

His ER is well outside the mean as much as his SR is.

Steyn was a demon with the new ball but when he wasn't taking wickets, he was usually getting tonked around. However, the tradeoff was when he had his matchwinning spells he was quicker to run through lineups than most.

You're just repeating the same thing again. He ER was higher was because he bowled a fuller, more aggressive length. By calling him scattergun you're implying the higher ER was because he was some inaccurate bowler spraying it around which is not true.

 

[subshakerz]

You're just repeating the same thing again. He ER was higher was because he bowled a fuller, more aggressive length. By calling him scattergun you're implying the higher ER was because he was some inaccurate bowler spraying it around which is not true.

You already admitted he had issues with the Duke.

And it's not just a full length, his line radar used to go off when he wasn't in the zone and the swing wasn't there. He was very much a mood bowler.

 

[Bolo.]

You already admitted he had issues with the Duke.

And it's not just a full length, his line radar used to go off when he wasn't in the zone and the swing wasn't there. He was very much a mood bowler.

I think the line was as responsible for his EC as the length. Was giving a 4 ball on the pads much more often than other top bowlers. This is also mainly an aggression thing though, both in terms of where he was aiming and the lack of control that comes with bowling fast. He always had the option of aiming at the off stump but mostly preferred to buy wickets.

 

[subshakerz]

I think the line was as responsible for his EC as the length. Was giving a 4 ball on the pads much more often than other top bowlers. This is also mainly an aggression thing though, both in terms of where he was aiming and the lack of control that comes with bowling fast. He always had the option of aiming at the off stump but mostly preferred to buy wickets.

Yes I agree. I recall him being towards clipped on side way more often.

 

[Bolo.]

Yes I agree. I recall him being towards clipped on side way more often.

Would you prefer him to be less aggressive?

 

[SeamUp]

Was actually watching this the other day. The great bowlers, batsmen know what was coming but that away swinger taking the stumps or being swallowed by Boucher or by Kallis/Smith in the slips or whoever was a glorious sight. Almost on repeat. Swing-bowling at high pace. Particularly away from the bat. Hope we get another somewhere in the world again that is close.

Dale Steyn all test wickets.mp4

drive.google.com

 

[OverratedSanity]

Was actually watching this the other day. The great bowlers, batsmen know what was coming but that away swinger taking the stumps or being swallowed by Boucher or by Kallis/Smith in the slips or whoever was a glorious sight. Almost on repeat. Swing-bowling at high pace. Particularly away from the bat. Hope we get another somewhere in the world again that is close.

Dale Steyn all test wickets.mp4

drive.google.com

Oh my god thank you for this link. Brb, copying it to my fap folder.

 

[subshakerz]

Would you prefer him to be less aggressive?

No it was his MO.

 

[kyear2]

The irony is that kyear2 keeps harping on about Imran's home umpires and other nonsense while conveniently ignoring that WI's stellar record of 15 years without a home loss came about because Imran was denied key wickets with atrocious umpiring.

Show me where I was harping about umpiring. Even mentioning....

But anyways, two lbw decisions is somehow the equivalent of an entire careers worth.

 

[smash84]

Show me where I was harping about umpiring. Even mentioning....

Dude, you've been spitting the same nonsense for more than a decade. It isn't hard to find. Here is a sampling. But it is always good calling you out.

#205

#317

#327

 

[kyear2]

We don't care where you rate him as much as how you rate him.


Please explain what in Steyns overall record distances him from Imran?

Please explain why Hadlee in England and McGrath in SA meet ATG standards but not Imran in WI?

It just seems obvious that in one case averages don't matter and in the other they do.

Hadlee in England McGrath doesn't meet ATG standards, who said they did?

Tell me where over the course of his career did Imran perform at an ATG level outside of Pakistan. Where are the < 20 - 22 averages that others had in the era.

It's clear where McGrath and Hadlee had those successes.

You're highlighting one blemish compared to no successes. Even when you give Imran a pass for his first tour to England, how did perform there?

 

[smash84]

Dude, you've been spitting the same nonsense for more than a decade. It isn't hard to find. Here is a sampling. But it is always good calling you out.

#205

#317

#327

inb4 @kyear2 now tries to deflect

 

[kyear2]

Dude, you've been spitting the same nonsense for more than a decade. It isn't hard to find. Here is a sampling. But it is always good calling you out.

#205

#317

#327

In this thread or argument Smali

 

[smash84]

You're highlighting one blemish compared to no successes. Even when you give Imran a pass for his first tour to England, how did perform there?

He performed pretty well in both series that he played in England in the 1980s. Was MoS in 1987 IIRC and great series in 1981-82

Pakistan in England Test Series 1982 Statistics - Pakistan in England Test Series - ESPNcricinfo

Take a look at all the stats around Pakistan in England Test Series 1982 - Pakistan in England Test Series.

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[smash84]

In this thread or argument Smali

You always seem to bring it up, so I thought might as well point it out and save you the trouble.

 

[subshakerz]

Hadlee in England McGrath doesn't meet ATG standards, who said they did?

Tell me where over the course of his career did Imran perform at an ATG level outside of Pakistan. Where are the < 20 - 22 averages that others had in the era.

It's clear where McGrath and Hadlee had those successes.

What about McGrath in SA? Is that ATG?

Imran taking 6 wickets a test in WI is meeting ATG standards and every poster here can acknowledge that. Is your standard that you ignore wicket tallys?

You're highlighting one blemish compared to no successes. Even when you give Imran a pass for his first tour to England, how did perform there?

This is bizarre to bring up Imran in England as a 'blemish'. In the 80s in his prime he played two series, taking 21 wickets @ 18 in one and 21 wickets @21 in another. You clearly don't know what you are talking about, this is embarassing.