Battle of flat track bullies - Hayden vs Sehwag

[Daemon]

Eh I can’t remember can you remind me?

Was cancelled last minute iirc.

 

[BazBall21]

I’m not a Hayden fan but I think where he suffers to an unfair extent is most people on here assume he was hopeless in SA but he was actually pretty good there if you look in detail.

PS Sehwag is held in pretty high regard here. He’s comprehensively beating someone who drew to Graeme Smith.

 

[Sunil1z]

I’m not a Hayden fan but I think where he suffers to an unfair extent is most people on here assume he was hopeless in SA but he was actually pretty good there if you look in detail.

PS Sehwag is held in pretty high regard here. He’s comprehensively beating someone who drew to Graeme Smith.

Because many fans rate Smith higher than Sehwag . So instead of voting for Sehwag they were voting for Smith. Since Smith is not the option here, vote is going to Sehwag.

 

[subshakerz]

I’m not a Hayden fan but I think where he suffers to an unfair extent is most people on here assume he was hopeless in SA but he was actually pretty good there if you look in detail.

PS Sehwag is held in pretty high regard here. He’s comprehensively beating someone who drew to Graeme Smith.

Hayden actually had a couple of goodish series in SA as opener whereas Sehwag failed outright as opener in 2006 and 2011.

Unfortunately there is a negative tendency by many posters on this forum to overvalue home performances in judging a cricketer versus actual adaptability. The line of thinking is that since they will play more in home conditions, skills that are better there will lead to more results. I don't think that is a good way to assess quality because to me being disproportionately skilled in certain conditions doesn't compensate if you are weak in other conditions.

So guys like Jadeja and Sehwag are made to seem better than they actually are.

 

[BazBall21]

Hayden actually had a couple of goodish series in SA as opener whereas Sehwag failed outright as opener in 2006 and 2011.

Unfortunately there is a negative tendency by many posters on this forum to overvalue home performances in judging a cricketer versus actual adaptability. The line of thinking is that since they will play more in home conditions, skills that are better there will lead to more results. I don't think that is a good way to assess quality because to me being disproportionately skilled in certain conditions doesn't compensate if you are weak in other conditions.

So guys like Jadeja and Sehwag are made to seem better than they actually are.

Hayden was definitely good in SA relative to the fact it’s been an absolute graveyard for opposition openers post-readmission. Aus/Eng seem to get slightly friendlier conditions but even then it’s still tough. I like Sehwag for the innumerable monster performances but averaging below 30 in three different countries in a batting era is obviously a big mark against him and the failures were also very logical so there’s not too much nuance like there is with some players’ underperformance in certain countries. Hayden is begrudgingly slightly ahead imo.

Also agree home runs/wickets can be overvalued during player evaluation. You play half your Tests at home so home production is very important for player’s value to the team, but during an evaluation I don’t think a player should get extra points for getting home conditions that suit their game more than other places.

16-4 now! Hayden really isn’t rated here. That doesn’t actually bother me but I don’t think Sehwag is better.

 

[subshakerz]

16-4 now! Hayden really isn’t rated here. That doesn’t actually bother me but I don’t think Sehwag is better.

It's crazy because I used to think Hayden was overrated but Sehwag's reputation is off the charts. No way it should be anything but close.

 

[BazBall21]

It's crazy because I used to think Hayden was overrated but Sehwag's reputation is off the charts. No way it should be anything but close.

Hayden’s hype has really dropped off tbh. He’s got a loyal cult but probably the least overrated of the four 2000s openers outside Australia.

 

[honestbharani]

So guys like Jadeja and Sehwag are made to seem better than they actually are.

Oh... the irony...

 

[honestbharani]

Jadeja and Sehwag are two of the greatest cricketers of this century.

 

[subshakerz]

Jadeja and Sehwag are two of the greatest cricketers of this century.

Two of the 30 or 40 greatest maybe. There are plenty ahead of them. It's like you are talking about Ponting and Kallis.

Sehwag wouldn't make the top ten bats of the last two decades.

Jadeja the home bully isnt even clearly ahead of Stokes, Shakib or Ashwin much less at the level of greats like Kapil, Botham or Imran.

 

[honestbharani]

Nah.. they are the greatest.

 

[Slifer]

Sehwag is one of those once in a lifetime revolutionary players along with Viv and Gilchrist, who just redefine a particular role.

 

[BazBall21]

Could Sehwag give G Smith or Greenidge a shock in a head to head?

 

[TheGreatest]

Could Sehwag give G Smith or Greenidge a shock in a head to head?

Hayden scored runs on turning pitches of India and against quality bowlers like Akram, Younis, Donald, Pollock etc. Not, sure if Sehwag faced the same quality.

 

[subshakerz]

Sehwag is one of those once in a lifetime revolutionary players along with Viv and Gilchrist, who just redefine a particular role.

Except he wasn't as good as the others in their roles nor as revolutionary. He was a risky luxury India could afford since it had other quality bats to take the slack.

Playing aggressively as an opener was there from Greenidge, Anwar, Slater to Hayden himself. Yeah Sehwag did it on steroids but the reason it doesn't become as common is because you are going to end up with his figures in conditions when the ball movies.

 

[Slifer]

Yeah but if he ever gets a hold of pretty much any fast bowler in slower conditions or if he gets ahold of pretty much any spinner then it's lights out.

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah but if he ever gets a hold of pretty much any fast bowler in slower conditions or if he gets ahold of pretty much any spinner then it's lights out.

The point Sehwag supporters dont get is that the value of a bat who scores when conditions are tough is more than a bat who scores quicker when conditions are batting-friendly. Yes there are spin-friendly exceptions but generally Sehwag scored more heavily on strips where most batsmen could do that.

Scoring runs against Shoaib in Multan's pancake doesn't impress me as much as it does for others.

 

[honestbharani]

Nah.. Sehwag and Jadeja are the greatest.

 

[Slifer]

The point Sehwag supporters dont get is that the value of a bat who scores when conditions are tough is more than a bat who scores quicker when conditions are batting-friendly. Yes there are spin-friendly exceptions but generally Sehwag scored more heavily on strips where most batsmen could do that.

Scoring runs against Shoaib in Multan's pancake doesn't impress me as much as it does for others.

I'm not a Sehwag supporter far from it but the man was a trend setter. There is aggressive then there is Sehwag. The likes of Greenidge, Hayden etc are pedestrian relatively speaking. And when conditions are tough yeah he wilts but when conditions are in his favor which let's be honest, happens more often than not then watch out. Looking at his record he was poor in England, NZ and RSA and mostly good everywhere else. That's good enough for me because outside of the elites (the big 4) there isn't an opener who didn't have conditions in which they struggled.

 

[honestbharani]

I'm not a Sehwag supporter far from it but the man was a trend setter. There is aggressive then there is Sehwag. The likes of Greenidge, Hayden etc are pedestrian relatively speaking. And when conditions are tough yeah he wilts but when conditions are in his favor which let's be honest, happens more often than not then watch out. Looking at his record he was poor in England, NZ and RSA and mostly good everywhere else. That's good enough for me because outside of the elites (the big 4) there isn't an opener who didn't have conditions in which they struggled.

You know you are wasting your time discussing facts about an Indian cricketer with saltshakerz over here, right?