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Australian Test Selection Thread 2017 - 2018

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Starc, Pattinson, Cummins, O'Keefe is a cracking 8-11

(But Haze better be injured if it ever happens or some **** on the selection panel is gonna die...)
Might have a reasonable claim at being the best tail in history if it ever played together. Right up there among the best anyway, only real weakness is that the #8, which I think long term would probably be Cummins, might not be at the level of the best 8s. But hard to know how good Cummins batting will end up. But potentially Pattinson at 10 and O'Keefe at 11 is nuts.

edit: Maybe still not as good as the South African 90s ones where Klusener and Pollock were at 9 and 10.
 
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burr

State Vice-Captain
People keep lauding O'Keefe's batting. It would be good if he actually made it count in tests. He's been underwhelming in India.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Batted well in the most recent test. But yes he's never really made a test score, just defended well at times.
 

Loose Cannon

U19 Debutant
He's been disappointing, but had some tough conditions in the limited matches played, including one where he was injured.

In those matches:

Starc - 20.71, 195 BF (7 inns)
O'Keefe - 10.00, 379 BF (10inns)
Lyon - 5.22, 83 BF (10 inns)
Hazlewood - 3.00, 73 BF (7 inns)
 
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TheJediBrah

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People keep lauding O'Keefe's batting. It would be good if he actually made it count in tests. He's been underwhelming in India.
When you think about it he's played pretty much every Test of his career in Asia. Maybe he's just not great at playing spin in Asian conditions.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Might have a reasonable claim at being the best tail in history if it ever played together. Right up there among the best anyway, only real weakness is that the #8, which I think long term would probably be Cummins, might not be at the level of the best 8s. But hard to know how good Cummins batting will end up. But potentially Pattinson at 10 and O'Keefe at 11 is nuts.

edit: Maybe still not as good as the South African 90s ones where Klusener and Pollock were at 9 and 10.
Pattinson's always looked the best bat of that lot to me. I'm always surprised that he's never really done much with the bat in domestic cricket, but I think he could average mid to high 20s in Tests which is perfectly good for #8.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, Starc has always struck me as a strong block-basher with decent basics and a good eye, whereas Pattinson legitimately looks like a grade cricket opening bat who happens to bowl to a Test class standard.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Pattinson was there for that final charge in the 2013 TB Test, right? He looked very solid there.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Cummins is the one I can imagine making big test scores the most of the three, but Pattinson also looks like a good bat. I'd probably guess Starc was the worst of the three actually, but he's had quite a bit of test batting success so that's perhaps overrating looks vs actual scoring ability. Cummins I can imagine scoring test hundreds though, and not just by hitting 10 sixes off a spinner or whatever.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah Cummins #canbat. iirc he was churning out grade tons in the middle order while unable to bowl

8. Pattinson
9. Cummins
10. Starc
11. O'Keefe

Solid, that.
 

TheJediBrah

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Yeah Cummins #canbat. iirc he was churning out grade tons in the middle order while unable to bowl

8. Pattinson
9. Cummins
10. Starc
11. O'Keefe

Solid, that.
Solid but likely purely hypothetical. Even if all 3 of those quicks are fit at the one time, which may be unlikely or at least rare, Hazlewood won't lose his spot unless he gets injured, and he's the most solid of the lot.
 

social

Hall of Fame Member
OK series just about done so where are we at?

IMO, it should be:

1. Vacant - Warner's probably a lock but shouldn't be as batting and fielding has been really poor plus his away record is pants
2. Renshaw - one for the future and this was always going to be a tough series for him
3. Vacant - should be Khawaja but his treatment has been disgraceful and who knows what the selectors are thinking
4. Smith
5. Handscomb
6. Maxwell
7. Vacant - Wade's keeping has been better than expected so the selectors will probably stick with him
8. Cummins/Patto - both better than Starc
9. Cummins/Patto - ditto
10. Lyon but could easily make a case for SOK
11. Haze

Alternatives: Starc, Bird, Sayers, SOK, Holland, Nev, Whiteman, Carey, Cartwright, Warner, Lehmann, Patterson, Henriques, Khawaja

Overall, it's pretty good but we desperately need some batting promise to translate into consistency to help Smith
 

TheJediBrah

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OK series just about done so where are we at?

IMO, it should be:

1. Vacant - Warner's probably a lock but shouldn't be as batting and fielding has been really poor plus his away record is pants
2. Renshaw - one for the future and this was always going to be a tough series for him
3. Vacant - should be Khawaja but his treatment has been disgraceful and who knows what the selectors are thinking
4. Smith
5. Handscomb
6. Maxwell
7. Vacant - Wade's keeping has been better than expected so the selectors will probably stick with him
8. Cummins/Patto - both better than Starc
9. Cummins/Patto - ditto
10. Lyon but could easily make a case for SOK
11. Haze

Alternatives: Starc, Bird, Sayers, SOK, Holland, Nev, Whiteman, Carey, Cartwright, Warner, Lehmann, Patterson, Henriques, Khawaja

Overall, it's pretty good but we desperately need some batting promise to translate into consistency to help Smith
Warner and Starc are locks, even if you think (possibly correctly) that they shouldn't be. Also Maxwell may be lucky to keep is spot come the home summer, unless they go 4 quicks and leave out Lyon (which would be awesome).

also IMO Pattinson is the best bowler in Australia
 

Nate

You'll Never Walk Alone
I think social has it pretty spot on.

Warner
Renshaw
Khawaja
Smith
Nevill
Handscomb
Maxwell
Cummins
Starc
O'Keefe
Hazlewood

Cartwright/Henriques as the batsman who bowls a bit in reserve, Behrendorff/Bird/Pattinson/Sayers for the pacers, and Lyon as the spinner.
 

social

Hall of Fame Member
Warner and Starc are locks, even if you think (possibly correctly) that they shouldn't be. Also Maxwell may be lucky to keep is spot come the home summer, unless they go 4 quicks and leave out Lyon (which would be awesome).

also IMO Pattinson is the best bowler in Australia
Just my opinion and not what I think the selectors will do.

If I was a betting man, I'd say Warner and Starc are locks for no other reason than potential and in Starc's case, variety

Warner is the real issue as him bashing up domestics in the Matador and SS doesnt really prove anything

If he was to fail in Bangladesh, I'd pick

Khawaja
Renshaw
Cartwright
Smith
Handscomb
Maxwell
Keeper dependent upon shield matches before Ashes
Patto
Cummins
Lyon because it's in Australia
Haze
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Very much doubt Starc (fitness permitting) is being dropped, nor do I think he should be. What's he done wrong exactly? Had a middling summer but wasn't terrible, some important, match-changing spells at different times, and his record over the last two years is almost identical to Hazlewood, who is quite rightly considered a lock by most.

That's 103 wickets @ 24.92, SR 43.91 in 22 tests for Starc and 109 wickets @ 25.06, SR 54.51 in 28 tests for Haze since the start of 2015. If you make the period shorter it tends to look better for Starc unless you just look at the last 3-4 tests. Throw in Starc's batting, which is 582 runs @ 21.56 with 5 50s in the same period, and his case is even stronger.

Obviously Pattinson is in the mix but I can't see the case for him replacing Starc at all. Clearly between him and Cummins for the third seamer spot, which also makes a really balanced pace attack.

I feel like if Australia tour Bangladesh (it's still not clear to me if this is actually happening, or when) they should go with basically the same team as India but give Khawaja a chance in the subcontinent for someone, at least if he's shown anything at all in the preparation time, in the nets etc.

If the Ashes were to start without any cricket between now and then, I'd go with:

Renshaw
Warner
Khawaja
Smith
Handscomb
Maxwell
Wade
Cummins
Starc
Lyon
Hazlewood

And can't really see a strong case for any changes there. It's just overthinking things IMO. Marsh was a chance but I think his failure in the last test here probably means he'd need to play in Bangladesh and do very well to have a chance of being picked in the summer.

Pattinson obviously the next seamer in line, O'Keefe the spinner, batsman is a bit trickier because you've got some experienced backup but I can see them picking a young batsman instead if there was a vacancy. Cartwright, Lehmann, Patterson would all be a shot based on form.
 
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