Spark
Global Moderator
wait i thought the SA tour was in march? they surely can't be sticking to the original schedule.
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Australian test selection 2020/21
- Thread starter Red
- Start date
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
The squad departs on Feb 24. So they might have time for one Shield game before then.
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Part of what got Renshaw out of the team was that he was ruled out of the UAE series after being clunked on the head at short leg under the 'least favoured player fields there' rule when Marnus should have been here. Then it was clear that Langer was going to follow through with his insane Finch opening plan and his shield form has dropped to nothing at all.
I'm still salty about that, even though he probably would have failed anyway.
Spark
Global Moderator
Apparently that was a Ryan Harris spread rumour, I still haven't seen official confirmation of that.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
They still haven't even officially confirmed the tour is actually happening, it's a very poorly kept secret that it got the green tick a couple of days ago though.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Anyone have the squad? Should we be demanding Ryan Harris spill?
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Hopefully one of them is Manenti.
morgieb
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Squad suggestions for South Africa:
BATTING
Overall while I don't think the batting is that bad, something seems off. That's two first innings we let a massive first-innings score go begging. Ones that could really change the game. The strategy isn't right. The Australian commentators (especially Punter and Junior) love to bag Pujara for occupying the crease without scoring runs, but Australia under Langer has done something similar. And at least Pujara knows that's the best way for him to bat. I don't think that's the case here.
OPENERS
The three openers in the squad should be Warner, Khawaja and Pucovski. I know a few people are calling for Warner's head, but I'm willing to put a line through this series entirely as he really wasn't fit and only played because the opening depth in Australia is dire. Last summer he was great, and that Ashes series probably won't apply at home. Khawaja isn't exactly ideal but he's one of the few Aussie bats who is genuinely proven Test-class and I think he might be better opening. Indeed his best two Test innings - arguably the two best Test innings played by an non-Smith Australian batsman in the last few years - came when opening. Meanwhile Pucovski is clearly an elite talent and needs to be in the side.
How you fit all three in the side is more difficult. If Warner/Khawaja weren't in their mid-30's I wouldn't care - just move Pucovski down to the middle-order - but who are our next generation openers? I don't want Harris, Burns or Bancroft playing for Australia again - Harris isn't mentally up to it and seems far too easy for bowlers to work over, Burns's technique is far too flawed against decent bowlers and Bancroft is just not very good. Renshaw flopped as an opener at Shield level. Street might have promise but he is a bit too shotless at this point, and hasn't really kicked on at Shield level. Whiteman's had a good last few matches but he needs at least a dominant season to put his hand up given how mediocre he was before this season. I've always liked Silk but he's never scored enough runs to justify selection. The other answer is move Pucovski up to opening after a couple of years, but given everything he's been through I feel like fiddling with his batting spot will backfire significantly, and we don't have the depth to justify burning a talent through muddling with his batting position. Given all 3 are comfortably in our best six bats too, it's not like we can justify putting one on the bench either.
MIDDLE ORDER
Three spots are obvious locks - Labuschagne at 3, Smith at 4 and Green at 5/6. Green I was pretty impressed by this series - I think his back-foot game needs to improve significantly and he still seems to be lacking gears, but he does seem committed to put the work in and improve to be a top-tier bat. Marnus and Smith obviously speak for themselves.
That leaves someone to bat 5. However all the options there are quite bad:
* Wade - hasn't made a score of substance in about 18 months. Made a big habit of throwing away decent starts with offensive shots. Should be jettisioned.
* Head - that off-stump problem won't solve itself overnight. I wouldn't want to pick him while it's still a work in progress, else it might ruin his Test credentials permanently.
* Khawaja - how often has he batted below 3 in any form of cricket? Would have to be very rare. His ability against spin means he would struggle down there regardless.
* S Marsh - already 37, generally been a failure at Test level. A huge step back.
* Patterson - has he even scored any runs since his time in the Test team? A shame too as I thought he had the potential to be at least decent.
* Renshaw - one decent innings does not burn the stench of two awful Shield seasons on the trot. Needs at least one excellent season to get back in the frame.
* McDermott - come back to me when he can convert a start. I think he's a talent but averaging 34 at Shield level isn't something great bats do.
* Solway - very little track record thus far and isn't young.
* Maxwell - has been a long-time since he's played regular FC cricket. I'd love to see it happen but there's a lot of question marks on his temperment and expecting them to be fixed in Tests is going to be risky.
* Maddinson - would've been an ideal option but recent form is untested, he failed for the A-team and failed in his first crack at Test level.
* Henriques - something about it just doesn't feel right. At best he'd be a stopgap at his age and he failed in his first crack at Test level. And unlike Maddinson I'm not sure he's a better batsman now then he was in his first Test stint.
* Pucovski - see openers.
In Head's favour I think South Africa's attack probably won't exploit his lack of footwork outside off-stump as well as a few other attacks have done, while McDermott does seem to be improving rapidly and his last dig in FC cricket was a match-saving century. Still in an ideal world you'd give them more Shield time.
I guess the two I'd take on tour (out of those blokes) would be Head and Henriques.
KEEPER
Paine had a frustrating series but apart from the last day of Sydney I don't think he kept that badly and his batting was on point. Carey is a pretty poor keeper from what I've seen and he's not Adam Gilchrist-tier of a bat where that can be justified. I haven't seen much of Inglis but he's still pretty untested. If Paine feels like he's had enough or thinks the tap on the shoulder is coming then that's fine, but I'm not that desperate to drop him given the alternatives aren't exactly stellar.
BOWLING
I've generally defended Australia's bowling a lot since about 2011 or so - generally Australia has had a good attack and has often been let down by some poor bowling. But there's no excuses for squandering two good last day positions back-to-back. I don't get why Starc wasn't rotated out of the attack for Brisbane given he looked off the boil at Sydney, and that might cost him his spot in the side. Obviously Cummins and Hazlewood are the two you'd build an attack around. But while Starc can be harshly treated at times (and I admit even I'm guilty of this too), I think he probably has to be dropped from the first XI in the hope that one of Australia's reserve quicks might be genuinely elite and/or for him to regain some rhythm and confidence and work out what is the best form of attack for him.
The ideal guy to go to would be Richardson. But while he's bowled great in the BBL it's a 50/50 call as to how match-fit he is for Test cricket, and you might have to look elsewhere. Neser I'm a little bit worried might lack a yard of pace to be consistently effective in Tests, but the next few Tests Australia will/might play are on green-ish wickets where he might make hay. The wildcard of course is Pattinson. I love Patto but I worry all those injuries has just seen him lose a bit of effectiveness. He still bowled well in the Tests he played last year but he didn't look anywhere near as venomous as before. Still that isn't bad depth to have, especially comparing it to the batsmen!
As for Lyon, he was probably even worse than Starc. He didn't bowl as many pies as Starc but he just could not seem to take wickets. Nevertheless, I'm still not convinced Swepson is actually a better bowler - certainly his A-team performances don't inspire confidence - whereas someone like Agar definitely isn't (and if he's in a 4-man attack off minefields god help us all). So he should be retained - I think a weaker batting lineup against spin and better tactical plans might help.
I do think a big reason as to why Australia's bowling failed here was down to reactive and inept plans. But that isn't really a matter of team selection!
BATTING
Overall while I don't think the batting is that bad, something seems off. That's two first innings we let a massive first-innings score go begging. Ones that could really change the game. The strategy isn't right. The Australian commentators (especially Punter and Junior) love to bag Pujara for occupying the crease without scoring runs, but Australia under Langer has done something similar. And at least Pujara knows that's the best way for him to bat. I don't think that's the case here.
OPENERS
The three openers in the squad should be Warner, Khawaja and Pucovski. I know a few people are calling for Warner's head, but I'm willing to put a line through this series entirely as he really wasn't fit and only played because the opening depth in Australia is dire. Last summer he was great, and that Ashes series probably won't apply at home. Khawaja isn't exactly ideal but he's one of the few Aussie bats who is genuinely proven Test-class and I think he might be better opening. Indeed his best two Test innings - arguably the two best Test innings played by an non-Smith Australian batsman in the last few years - came when opening. Meanwhile Pucovski is clearly an elite talent and needs to be in the side.
How you fit all three in the side is more difficult. If Warner/Khawaja weren't in their mid-30's I wouldn't care - just move Pucovski down to the middle-order - but who are our next generation openers? I don't want Harris, Burns or Bancroft playing for Australia again - Harris isn't mentally up to it and seems far too easy for bowlers to work over, Burns's technique is far too flawed against decent bowlers and Bancroft is just not very good. Renshaw flopped as an opener at Shield level. Street might have promise but he is a bit too shotless at this point, and hasn't really kicked on at Shield level. Whiteman's had a good last few matches but he needs at least a dominant season to put his hand up given how mediocre he was before this season. I've always liked Silk but he's never scored enough runs to justify selection. The other answer is move Pucovski up to opening after a couple of years, but given everything he's been through I feel like fiddling with his batting spot will backfire significantly, and we don't have the depth to justify burning a talent through muddling with his batting position. Given all 3 are comfortably in our best six bats too, it's not like we can justify putting one on the bench either.
MIDDLE ORDER
Three spots are obvious locks - Labuschagne at 3, Smith at 4 and Green at 5/6. Green I was pretty impressed by this series - I think his back-foot game needs to improve significantly and he still seems to be lacking gears, but he does seem committed to put the work in and improve to be a top-tier bat. Marnus and Smith obviously speak for themselves.
That leaves someone to bat 5. However all the options there are quite bad:
* Wade - hasn't made a score of substance in about 18 months. Made a big habit of throwing away decent starts with offensive shots. Should be jettisioned.
* Head - that off-stump problem won't solve itself overnight. I wouldn't want to pick him while it's still a work in progress, else it might ruin his Test credentials permanently.
* Khawaja - how often has he batted below 3 in any form of cricket? Would have to be very rare. His ability against spin means he would struggle down there regardless.
* S Marsh - already 37, generally been a failure at Test level. A huge step back.
* Patterson - has he even scored any runs since his time in the Test team? A shame too as I thought he had the potential to be at least decent.
* Renshaw - one decent innings does not burn the stench of two awful Shield seasons on the trot. Needs at least one excellent season to get back in the frame.
* McDermott - come back to me when he can convert a start. I think he's a talent but averaging 34 at Shield level isn't something great bats do.
* Solway - very little track record thus far and isn't young.
* Maxwell - has been a long-time since he's played regular FC cricket. I'd love to see it happen but there's a lot of question marks on his temperment and expecting them to be fixed in Tests is going to be risky.
* Maddinson - would've been an ideal option but recent form is untested, he failed for the A-team and failed in his first crack at Test level.
* Henriques - something about it just doesn't feel right. At best he'd be a stopgap at his age and he failed in his first crack at Test level. And unlike Maddinson I'm not sure he's a better batsman now then he was in his first Test stint.
* Pucovski - see openers.
In Head's favour I think South Africa's attack probably won't exploit his lack of footwork outside off-stump as well as a few other attacks have done, while McDermott does seem to be improving rapidly and his last dig in FC cricket was a match-saving century. Still in an ideal world you'd give them more Shield time.
I guess the two I'd take on tour (out of those blokes) would be Head and Henriques.
KEEPER
Paine had a frustrating series but apart from the last day of Sydney I don't think he kept that badly and his batting was on point. Carey is a pretty poor keeper from what I've seen and he's not Adam Gilchrist-tier of a bat where that can be justified. I haven't seen much of Inglis but he's still pretty untested. If Paine feels like he's had enough or thinks the tap on the shoulder is coming then that's fine, but I'm not that desperate to drop him given the alternatives aren't exactly stellar.
BOWLING
I've generally defended Australia's bowling a lot since about 2011 or so - generally Australia has had a good attack and has often been let down by some poor bowling. But there's no excuses for squandering two good last day positions back-to-back. I don't get why Starc wasn't rotated out of the attack for Brisbane given he looked off the boil at Sydney, and that might cost him his spot in the side. Obviously Cummins and Hazlewood are the two you'd build an attack around. But while Starc can be harshly treated at times (and I admit even I'm guilty of this too), I think he probably has to be dropped from the first XI in the hope that one of Australia's reserve quicks might be genuinely elite and/or for him to regain some rhythm and confidence and work out what is the best form of attack for him.
The ideal guy to go to would be Richardson. But while he's bowled great in the BBL it's a 50/50 call as to how match-fit he is for Test cricket, and you might have to look elsewhere. Neser I'm a little bit worried might lack a yard of pace to be consistently effective in Tests, but the next few Tests Australia will/might play are on green-ish wickets where he might make hay. The wildcard of course is Pattinson. I love Patto but I worry all those injuries has just seen him lose a bit of effectiveness. He still bowled well in the Tests he played last year but he didn't look anywhere near as venomous as before. Still that isn't bad depth to have, especially comparing it to the batsmen!
As for Lyon, he was probably even worse than Starc. He didn't bowl as many pies as Starc but he just could not seem to take wickets. Nevertheless, I'm still not convinced Swepson is actually a better bowler - certainly his A-team performances don't inspire confidence - whereas someone like Agar definitely isn't (and if he's in a 4-man attack off minefields god help us all). So he should be retained - I think a weaker batting lineup against spin and better tactical plans might help.
I do think a big reason as to why Australia's bowling failed here was down to reactive and inept plans. But that isn't really a matter of team selection!
Jarquis
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Dunno if all 24 are travelling or what the go is
Line and Length
Cricketer Of The Year
A thorough and interesting analysis by morgieb. Of the XI that played at Brisbane, Harris and Wade are the most under threat. I have a feeling that Wade might make the SA squad as back-up 'keeper. Pucovski is the natural replacement for Harris but the latter might be retained in the squad.
I agree that Richardson is the logical 4th choice quick - despite not having a throwing arm - but Abbott shouldn't be totally rejected. Of others mentioned, I wouldn't even consider Renshaw on the basis of one knock while I can't see both Henriques and Maxwell in the same squad. Despite an awful A Team performance, I'd take Swepson.
I agree that Richardson is the logical 4th choice quick - despite not having a throwing arm - but Abbott shouldn't be totally rejected. Of others mentioned, I wouldn't even consider Renshaw on the basis of one knock while I can't see both Henriques and Maxwell in the same squad. Despite an awful A Team performance, I'd take Swepson.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Oh god, you're right.
So, uhh, if they take 24 (!!!)
Warner
Pucovski
Labuschagne
Smith
Wade
Green
Paine
Cummins
Starc
Lyon
Hazlewood
Harris
Khawaja
Maddinson
McDermott
Head
Henriques
Carey
Neser
Pattinson
Richardson
Swepson
Steketee
Conway / Wildermuth
Leaving a T20 unit along the lines of:
Short
Lynn
Finch
Maxwell
Stoinis
Philippe
Sams
Richardson
Zampa
Tye
Behrendorff
Inglis
Weatherald / Wells
Turner
Stanlake
Dwarshuis / Ellis / McAndrew
Sangha
Warner
Pucovski
Labuschagne
Smith
Wade
Green
Paine
Cummins
Starc
Lyon
Hazlewood
Harris
Khawaja
Maddinson
McDermott
Head
Henriques
Carey
Neser
Pattinson
Richardson
Swepson
Steketee
Conway / Wildermuth
Leaving a T20 unit along the lines of:
Short
Lynn
Finch
Maxwell
Stoinis
Philippe
Sams
Richardson
Zampa
Tye
Behrendorff
Inglis
Weatherald / Wells
Turner
Stanlake
Dwarshuis / Ellis / McAndrew
Sangha
