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Aussie selfishness

Swervy

International Captain
Pratyush said:
The Aussies have. Hayden if I am not mistaken.
You started having a go at ponting..now you have changed it to Hayden (who you have actually called 'The aussies'..as if the entire Australia population was in agreement with Hayden)
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Swervy said:
You started having a go at ponting..now you have changed it to Hayden (who you have actually called 'The aussies'..as if the entire Australia population was in agreement with Hayden)
The Australian cricket team and not the population. But from the likes of your comments, atleast one more Australian does believe the Ausse cricket team do not regard a lot about the milestones like the 50s even though Ponting showed otherwise
 

age_master

Hall of Fame Member
Ponting isn't a wether man, without the rain, Australia would have rolled through NZ, as it happens, even if we had declared earlier with the rain there still would not have been a result.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Swervy said:
You have dragged India into I am afraid...the discussion was regarding Lara and its similarities/differences with warnes 50...you see the arguement slipping away from you because there really is no comparison, so you bring up pathan.
My arguement slipping away from me? :)

My arguement was how milestones are being given due importance by the Aussie team even though they can accuse other teams of showing importance for it.

That hasnt lost relevence in the light of what happened with Australia and Warne compared with India and Pathan.

I mentioned the Windies because the Aussies have accused them of such behaviour and other teams even though they practised the same.
 

Swervy

International Captain
Pratyush said:
The Australian cricket team and not the population. But from the likes of your comments, atleast one more Australian does believe the Ausse cricket team do not regard a lot about the milestones like the 50s even though Ponting showed otherwise
well to be honest I think most captains do have half an eye on his players milestones given the right circumstances..I dont think Ponting was out of order holding on 2 overs for the declaration...I dont think it would have been appropriate for ganguly to have continued so Pathan could have made his 50,and I do thinkPonting had a point reagrding Laras innings (however I dont blame lara for going for the record, I just think he shouldnt have let the record be the reason why he slowed down so much)
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Swervy said:
well to be honest I think most captains do have half an eye on his players milestones given the right circumstances..I dont think Ponting was out of order holding on 2 overs for the declaration...I dont think it would have been appropriate for ganguly to have continued so Pathan could have made his 50,and I do thinkPonting had a point reagrding Laras innings (however I dont blame lara for going for the record, I just think he shouldnt have let the record be the reason why he slowed down so much)
How was it justified for Warne and not for Pathan.

For me, winning the match is most important. If in a situation, the team feels sufficient runs are on the board, they should immediately declare. If there is a very important milestone which can be achieved in one or two overs, exception may be made. But for a 50 of Warne, no it doesnt make sense.

It is beside the point whether Lara's milestone was selfish or not. What is relevent is a player accusing another captain and then following on a similar path. You may argue it was just two overs. But the two overs highlights the importance given to an irrelevent milestone.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Pratyush said:
How was it justified for Warne and not for Pathan.
Because it's a completely different match and series situation.

I will also point out that at the time the last pair were together, so there was far less chance of any landmarks there.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
marc71178 said:
Because it's a completely different match and series situation.

I will also point out that at the time the last pair were together, so there was far less chance of any landmarks there.
There was a ar less chance but it was not 'completely' different situations even though they were different matches. They were similar situations. Both teams faced the question of declaration or letting a player go for a 50.

The chance was less in the Pathan case but it was certainly there.

As far as series situation goes, both teams had winning the match in mind more than any thing. So even though the scores were different, the objective in both matches was most definitely the same.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Pratyush said:
There was a ar less chance but it was not 'completely' different situations even though they were different matches. They were similar situations. Both teams faced the question of declaration or letting a player go for a 50.
They were vastly different.

1 was the first innings of the match, the other was with much less time left and a target already in place.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
marc71178 said:
They were vastly different.

1 was the first innings of the match, the other was with much less time left and a target already in place.
Both were declaration secnarios with two options. Whether to declare immediately or le a player go for a 50 and bat two excess overs.

In both cases time was a key issue as rain was predicted in one match later and the bowling the team in he 4th inning the issue in the second.

Not vastly different!
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
How Ponting can be accused of letting Warnie reach a selfish milestone which only took 37 balls versus Lara's delay to get to 400 is just, well, beyond comparison at the very least.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Top_Cat said:
How Ponting can be accused of letting Warnie reach a selfish milestone which only took 37 balls versus Lara's delay to get to 400 is just, well, beyond comparison at the very least.
I am not comparing the two. I am just saying that a captain who says some one should not hold importance to milestones and go for team wins, (for which I mentioned the Lara inning which Ponting mentioned) does place importance to the milestones is ironic.
 

C_C

International Captain
look this whole 'selfish/unselfish' thing is a buncha BS.... this is called aggressive image management in the media....basically every superstar knows that their words are taken as canonical declarations in the field by many........so some of them make statements that are erroneous/ludicrous/idiotic etc. because they know that some WILL buy it and affect the image of themselves/target players.

Look at Hayden's comment about 'slowing down for milestones' for example....made a point that subcontinental folks slow down for milestones.......
when it was actually proven ( one crickinfo stats corner article) that the aussies slow down more for a milestone than the subcontinental batsmen on average - that is, transiting in the 'nervous nineties' or even from '80s to the century' period.......
This doesnt mean that ALL subcontinental batsmen approach milestones faster than the aussies...merely that more subcontinental batsmen (both numerically and proportionately) do so than the aussies........
And look at the effect this statement has created in some circles........
This is nothing new..its called trying to influence the feeble minded ones because a large part of exsistance is perception ....thats all.
 

quytst0rm

School Boy/Girl Captain
Pratyush said:
The subcontinental teams have been accused of selfishness and its ironic such is shown by the often comment sharp Aussies themselves on the issue.

I havent dragged India into it. The Aussies have by mentioning in the past of selfishness. Also accusing the Windies of the same when the series was lost and more pride was gained through the 400 than a last test possible victory could ever.
Well you guys are forgetting when Dravid declared when Sachin was on 194*.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
C_C said:
This is nothing new..its called trying to influence the feeble minded ones because a large part of exsistance is perception ....thats all.
Word.

It is always surprising though how many people do buy these comments and actually start claiming things said in such comments as totally true.
 

slugger

State Vice-Captain
*maybe teams have to automactically declare once they reach 450 runs. this would remove personal milestones from the equation.
 
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Son Of Coco

Hall of Fame Member
Pratyush said:
Okay I was amused to see Australia carry on their inning and declare only after Warne reached a fifty in the 2nd Australia - New Zealand test. http://www.cricinfo.com/link_to_dat..._IN_NZ/SCORECARDS/AUS_NZ_T2_18-22MAR2005.html

Why!?

They had more than enough on the board and a day had already been lost due to rain. As it proved, the Australians did fall short on time. A declaration 20 runs earlier wouldnt make a HUGE difference but had there been 2 hours of less rain, a latter declaration may have been crucial.

It is just a point in case of a captain who called Lara's 400 selfish when it was one of the mor eimportant innings in Windies recent cricket which restored some pride back into their cricket after the humiliation suffered earlier in that series.
I think this thread is completely ridiculous, and if you're suggesting that RP should be making assumptions as to how many NZ would score in their first innings and setting his first innings total based on that then it's appropriate that you started it.

All the rain made any chance of a result fairly slim.
 

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