Ashwin vs Swann, who is better on flat pitches?

[PlayerComparisons]

Who would you pick on a flat pitch?

 

[subshakerz]

Swann. It's not even a contest. He has several matchwinning performances in such conditions.

Consider his matchwinning fifers in Durban 2009, Adelaide 2010 and Oval 2011 against India, all fairly flat pitches where England scored nearby 600 and he sealed games against reasonably good batting lineups.

Ashwin is going to go missing.

 

[Migara]

Swann.

 

[Bolo.]

If the quality of bowling is vaguely comparable, SENA bowlers are usually going to win against Asians on pitches that don't take much turn. Bigger emphasis on flight, bounce, and more rip.

Asians will usually be better on pitches that do turn for exactly the same reasons.

 

[subshakerz]

If the quality of bowling is vaguely comparable, SENA bowlers are usually going to win against Asians on pitches that don't take much turn. Bigger emphasis on flight, bounce, and more rip.

Asians will usually be better on pitches that do turn for exactly the same reasons.

Plenty of Asian spinners are more competitive than Ashwin in SENA though, he is an especially handicapped case compared to an actual all-round spinner like Swann.

I would take Murali, Saqlain, Mushtaq Ahmed, Kumble, Kaneria, Ajmal, Herath and Chandra over Ashwin in SENA.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Ashwin. He'd at least hang around until the series was finished.

 

[GIMH]

Ashwin. He'd at least hang around until the series was finished.

Oh

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Why did swann retire in the middle of the series?

 

[subshakerz]

Ashwin. He'd at least hang around until the series was finished.

Irrelevant since he is likely to be dropped for Jadeja mid-series anyways.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Irrelevant since he is likely to be dropped for Jadeja mid-series anyways.

Very good point

 

[ataraxia]

Why did swann retire in the middle of the series?

He wanted to keep his batting average above 22 IIRC.

 

[Coronis]

He wanted to keep his batting average above 22 IIRC.

iirc he wanted to keep his bowling average below Anderson’s. Worked for a few years

 

[Bolo.]

Plenty of Asian spinners are more competitive than Ashwin in SENA though, he is an especially handicapped case compared to an actual all-round spinner like Swann.

I would take Murali, Saqlain, Mushtaq Ahmed, Kumble, Kaneria, Ajmal, Herath and Chandra over Ashwin in SENA.

More of a comment on how performances go than an attempt to rank specifically.

The flightiest, top spinniest bowlers tend to get murdered in India in particular. See how much more success Lyon has had there since changing his MO.

 

[Migara]

More of a comment on how performances go than an attempt to rank specifically.

The flightiest, top spinniest bowlers tend to get murdered in India in particular. See how much more success Lyon has had there since changing his MO.

Success of Lyon is due to regression of Indian ability to play spin. Let Lyon bowl in few Ranji trophy matches and there will be few lads who are in god mode in playing spin (but cannot proceed due to inability to play pace) will show how to play spinners. The subcontinent players get more likely to get selected if they play pace better.

For example Aravinda de Silva was atrocious against spin for about 5 - 6 years in his early career. Was never the top scorer in school circuit, nor in first class. But his ability to play pace, especially the express stuff, catapulted him to the side. It was a real pain to see Aravinda hooking a WI fast bowler for a boundary, playing them with all the time in the world and next over getting out to Viv Richards. Same with climbing in to Imran and Wasim and then getting out to a no name Pakistani spinner.

The issue we see with almost all SC batsmen, unlike one or two in the past. They are selected for their ability to play pace, and some crap players of spin also get selected.

 

[Calm_profit]

Success of Lyon is due to regression of Indian ability to play spin. Let Lyon bowl in few Ranji trophy matches and there will be few lads who are in god mode in playing spin (but cannot proceed due to inability to play pace) will show how to play spinners. The subcontinent players get more likely to get selected if they play pace better.

For example Aravinda de Silva was atrocious against spin for about 5 - 6 years in his early career. Was never the top scorer in school circuit, nor in first class. But his ability to play pace, especially the express stuff, catapulted him to the side. It was a real pain to see Aravinda hooking a WI fast bowler for a boundary, playing them with all the time in the world and next over getting out to Viv Richards. Same with climbing in to Imran and Wasim and then getting out to a no name Pakistani spinner.

The issue we see with almost all SC batsmen, unlike one or two in the past. They are selected for their ability to play pace, and some crap players of spin also get selected.

That's basically you described Rahane.

 

[Bolo.]

Success of Lyon is due to regression of Indian ability to play spin. Let Lyon bowl in few Ranji trophy matches and there will be few lads who are in god mode in playing spin (but cannot proceed due to inability to play pace) will show how to play spinners. The subcontinent players get more likely to get selected if they play pace better.

For example Aravinda de Silva was atrocious against spin for about 5 - 6 years in his early career. Was never the top scorer in school circuit, nor in first class. But his ability to play pace, especially the express stuff, catapulted him to the side. It was a real pain to see Aravinda hooking a WI fast bowler for a boundary, playing them with all the time in the world and next over getting out to Viv Richards. Same with climbing in to Imran and Wasim and then getting out to a no name Pakistani spinner.

The issue we see with almost all SC batsmen, unlike one or two in the past. They are selected for their ability to play pace, and some crap players of spin also get selected.

Partly, for sure. But his performances improved across Asia when he started bowling flatter with more focus on side spin.

 

[Johan]

I love and hate how Swann's entire legacy is being the guy who quit in the middle of a series, not match winning spells or consistency accross all nations bar Aus, the whole legacy is being a quitter, it's hilariously tragic.

 

[Xix2565]

Success of Lyon is due to regression of Indian ability to play spin.

Dogshit take as always. Do people forget DRS exists at all or what?

 

[Migara]

Dog**** take as always. Do people forget DRS exists at all or what?

Usual Horses*hit. This is touring spinners in Sri Lanka where the quality of pitches have not changed much.



Pace bowlers



Not much of a change in stats hence showing DRS helping spinners is a horsehit theory.

 

[Coronis]

Usual Horses*hit. This is touring spinners in Sri Lanka where the quality of pitches have not changed much.

View attachment 41556

Pace bowlers

View attachment 41557

Not much of a change in stats hence showing DRS helping spinners is a horsehit theory.

Actually looks like Sri Lanka has become a significantly harder place to tour this decade.