Anil Kumble - India's New Test Captain

[Richard]

Let me ask something - India are embarrased (ie held to a draw) by Pakistan, and mauled in Australia. Dhoni is taken to pieces, doesn't score a run, and needs to be seriously considered to be dropped from the Test side.

Why is Dhoni considered captain-in-waiting? If we have it this way, it is as bad as Dhoni being given the Test captaincy now. The entire point of giving Kumble the captaincy should be that we do not know whether Dhoni has it in him to do the job, and until he does he should not even be considered.

The reason I am happy Kumble has been given it is that I don't feel Dhoni is certain to be a Test-class cricketer.

 

[SJS]

Let me ask something - India are embarrased (ie held to a draw) by Pakistan, and mauled in Australia. Dhoni is taken to pieces, doesn't score a run, and needs to be seriously considered to be dropped from the Test side.

Why is Dhoni considered captain-in-waiting? If we have it this way, it is as bad as Dhoni being given the Test captaincy now. The entire point of giving Kumble the captaincy should be that we do not know whether Dhoni has it in him to do the job, and until he does he should not even be considered.

The reason I am happy Kumble has been given it is that I don't feel Dhoni is certain to be a Test-class cricketer.

Absolutely. Spot on.

No. I don't think Dhoni should be considered captain-in-waiting. India have not been giving the captaincy the importance it deserves hence no effort to groom captains. We talk in the air about future captains a la Kaif, Yuvraj, Sehwag and the fellows are not in the test side any more. So we should hand over the captaincy to someone, say Kumble, for at least a season or two, appoint a younger player as the vice captain and look at the situation at the end of the period. But we dont do that.

Dravid's captaincy lasted four years look at how many times we changed the Vice Captain.

I have no disagreement with what you are saying. Nor is my long post on "Why Kumble" an endorsement of Dhoni or a criticism of Kumble as captains. It is the indifference of the selectors and BCCI to the captaincy of the Indian cricket team.

 

[pasag]

Regardless of Dhoni being good enough or not, do people think he'll ever be dropped even putting the captaincy aside for a sec? Seems to have cemeted his position, perhaps quite unfairly.

 

[SJS]

Regardless of Dhoni being good enough or not, do people think he'll ever be dropped even putting the captaincy aside for a sec? Seems to have cemeted his position, perhaps quite unfairly.

Doubtful but then Sehwag did not look like he could ever be dropped from the test side not so long back before he actually was.

 

[Sanz]

For the record Sanz, In my book:

Kumble >>> Dhoni(who has potential to move higher) >>>> Jadeja (fixer), Sidhu

Its funny that you continue to bracket Sidhu with Jadeja, tells much about your own prejudices with regards to Sidhu than anything else. As a cricketer Dhoni has a long way to go before he can be compared to someone like Sidhu.

And saying "when you have a leader like Dhoni, why turn to a person like Anil"
denigrates Kumble (longer history of captaincy,cricket) == ungracious.

Sidhu didn't say this..and I am not arguing about Jadeja although I dont think he meant it to deginerate Kumble, he was probably referring to the same thing many of us are referring here which is Kumble isn't going to be around much longer.

And while Sidhu probably had nothing to do with Dravid's resignation, it was this type of public commentary,many times thoughtless, by ex-cricketers that makes the Indian captaincy a crown of thorns. If Vengsarkar is part of the problem, so be it to blame him too, I hold no brief for him. I was referring to Vengsarkar as a selector who had made a decision to appoint Kumble.

Such comments/criticism are going to be there and if a captain cant handle something as trivial as this, then he is better off not taking the job and they have a right to have their opinion jus tlike you do.

As fas Sidhu's comments are concerned, I dont know how long you will take to figure it out but let me try once more :- Sidhu was criticizing Selectors decision and not Kumble.

 

[Sanz]

That said, SJS has hit the nail on this topic with his post and I dont think I need to say anything more here on his appointment.

 

[honestbharani]

There has been near unanimous applause from the galleries on Kumble's being appointed the captain of the test side. Surprising since he wasn't most people's first choice. I suppose it shows the warm regard in which he is held by Indians in particular and cricket followers around the world in general. But I came across one person on another forum who said that it was a regressive move. dual command centres. like a government office seniority based promotion/appointment

I post my response to that here not just to share my thought with all my friends here but also to save myself the trouble of writing all over again with all the typos, grammatical errors that old-age seems to bring in increasing numbers with every passing day

Here it is.

Thats a very interesting call. One of the rare one's I have seen on the two cricket forums I frequent. For that reason alone I am glad to see it plus it has some merits in what he is trying to say.

All those who were for Dhoni or Tendulkar (or Dravid or Ganguly or Laxman or George Bush for that matter) seem to have welcomed it as a sensible, best option available, deserving recognition for the fighter from Karnataka, ideal stop-gap-arrangement, gives-Dhoni-time etc etc.

Does this sound like all India (and the world) is claiming Kumble is the best man to lead India ? Far from it. In fact, there have been more left handed compliments to Kumble and, I dare say, to the selectors who made the decision, in the last two days than they (Kumble and the selectors) may find funny.

No one has come out and said Kumble is a good captain PERIOD....and thats because they dont really know if he is. No one has said that he is the solution to India's captaincy problems....and that because he isn't and hasn't been offered as one. Then why has Kumble been made India's next test captain.

- Kumble has been made captain because of what in Indian politics is called the TINA factor. The there-is-no-alternative factor. For this alone - that we are in a situation where we have run out of alternatives that were/should-have-been planned for - the selectors, and the BCCI to some extent, need to be roundly ticked off.

- Kumble has been made captain because those who were chosen for the job refused to do it. For this alone - that the most coveted job in Indian sport is considered such an unappetising prospect by those who have it or are offered - the BCCI, the selectors, the Indian media and to a lesser extent the teeming billion blue of India need to be asked to do massive introspection.

- Kumble has been made captain because the man we feel is Indian cricket's undisputed and partly crowned leader of today and tomorrow is also felt to be in the need of 'protection' from the 'morale-sapping' defeat that Australia may inflict on us or, God-forbid, Shoaib's unfancied troops do at home. So scared are we of a loss to the undisputed champions of the game and so fragile (or so it would appear) is the mental make up of our 26 year old 'crown prince' that we and he need to be provided protection in the form of this 37 year old battle-scarred warrior from Karnataka. If this is the state of our forbearance and the fortitude of our leaders of the future we are in trouble anyway.

- Kumble has also been made captain (so some are claiming) because his absence from the ODI side. Apparently this would make it easier for Dhoni (dont ask me why) in odi's and for Kumble in tests - perhaps because he wouldn't have painful recollections of Dhoni's dirty looks for a poor over or a bad miss on the field earlier in a limited over game. Australia and England have thought differently and while one may debate the merits or otherwise of split captaincy, it doesnt reflect too positively on Dhoni and Kumble's man management skills and certainly is not a positive reason for Kumble's selection.​

So while we may say nice things about Kumble's selection (as I too have done) we need to remember that he seems to have been selected for , if not the wrong reasons, certainly not for the most positive ones.

Finally, by selecting him only for the Pakistan series and not for the entire season and for giving as a reason, for this public show of lack of confidence, Kumble's uncertain form-and-fitness', the selectors have revealed their shoddy attitude towards India captains. Its quite possible that this reason is given as a dishonest cover and that the selectors are actually going to look at the results of the ODI and test series against Pakistan before choosing between the two captains that are leading the two campaigns.

Nothing wrong in wanting to be sure if your decision is the right one but can you really find out about either in the short time given?

Captaincy is a skill, just as any other in the game, which can be seen, debated and assessed but not not always in the light of the match results. Just as great batsmen may not always win tests for you - great captains too may not be able to do so. Surely, success or lack of it in a short run of three test matches is not going to tell you much. But Mr Vengsarkar and his merry band know better. Tell you what, this stinks not of giving Kumble a gift (as very badly put by Sanjay Manjrekar who specialises putting things badly) or of belatedly discovering latent leadeship skills in Anil kumble but of selectors, who talk of the long run, having no idea that mishandling the short run in not a good way to build for the future.

This, the selecting Kumble to keep the seat warm, as it were, for Dhoni may also give a clue as to why the Sachin refused to take up the job. I would not be surprised if he made it clear that he would take up the job only if allowed to lead for the next 2-3 years. You cant find fault with that. Sachin doesn't really need that job. Why should he have taken it up and be held up to ridicule by an increasingly ungrateful fan following (and media) that has been talking of its-time-for-Sachin-to-go even when he has been going through his brightest patch (batting-wise) since the last six years or so.

He would have and should have taken it up as an honour- which it is; to try and set right the one untidy bit in his CV - which he may or may not have succeeded in doing; AND to try and guide and build the team he would want to leave behind when he bids farewell to the dressing room - which I am sure he would have loved to do . None of these, however, can be accomplished in a short stint.

But we digress. Coming back to Kumble and his appointment, if Kumble comes out with good results (a draw or a small win against Pakistan will do followed by a fighting tight loss against Australia) the selectors will pat themselves on the back. If the results are worse, they will go to Dhoni and say, that was their plan anyway, its just come six months too early.

If Kumble had to be appointed captain only for the Pakistan series, Mr. Vengsarkar, it would have been better not to appoint him at all. We would have been better off with Dhoni as captain for the entire season. Surely, he will be the deputy and an injury to Kumble will throw him in the fray. Maybe we would discover a great captain as Nari Contractor's near-fatal injury did in the West Indies in early sixties. And Pataudi Sr was five years younger than Dhoni is today and had played only three test matches to Dhoni's twenty.

Maybe team India would have been mauled under Dhoni (though I doubt it) but if so we should have continued with him as we did with Pataudi Jr after that mauling in the West Indies 45 years ago and see what a gem we unearthed. Either throw him into the water and let him learn to swim by himself or let him be given a proper traing (read grooming) so that we justice to his undoubted leadership skills and also do not treat shoddily those who have given such yeomen service to the team and the game.

Interesting, SJS.


I do agree that Kumble has not got the position for the best reasons. It is a bit of a stop-gap arrangement and as you said, may well have been the reason why Sachin and others refused the job.

But I think the one main point you have missed on is the fact that Dhoni is far from settled in the test side. There are better keepers than him in India and there MAY be better batsmen than him among those keepers as far as Tests/FC is concerned. I doubt it very much if the selectors see it the same way (I think Dhoni is quickly gonna become one of those UNDROPPABLE guys, no matter how bad his performace is or how good his competitors' performance is) BUT that is one line of thought that you have missed. IF that was the reason, then I think for that alone, the decision is perfectly justifiable on the part of the selectors.

 

[adharcric]

Dhoni's glovework (and batting to an extent) in test cricket is still too unproven for him to be "undroppable". One bad series and KKD will be back in the race, especially if Sehwag, Gambhir or Chopra stake a claim at the top. The selectors love Dhoni but they love Karthik as well. Don't forget about Parthiv, though it seems his keeping still sucks.

 

[honestbharani]

Dhoni's glovework (and batting to an extent) in test cricket is still too unproven for him to be "undroppable". One bad series and KKD will be back in the race, especially if Sehwag, Gambhir or Chopra stake a claim at the top. The selectors love Dhoni but they love Karthik as well. Don't forget about Parthiv, though it seems his keeping still sucks.

His keeping DOES suck. And I think the selectors love MSD more than they love KKD.

 

[Jono]

I agree with Honest actually, and I think I was saying it before when I was justifying why Dhoni should be made captain.

Whether its right or wrong, fair or unfair, in the selectors' eyes Dhoni IMO is a certainty in the test team pretty much every day of the week. There is no way he'd be dropped anytime soon barring an absolute capitulation in his batting and keeping standards, as not only is he very marketable and very popular, his captaincy and the support he's getting from all corners (fans, media, ex-players, current players) regarding his ability to lead means they have him firmly cemented as the next Indian test captain.

 

[SJS]

Interesting, SJS.


I do agree that Kumble has not got the position for the best reasons. It is a bit of a stop-gap arrangement and as you said, may well have been the reason why Sachin and others refused the job.

But I think the one main point you have missed on is the fact that Dhoni is far from settled in the test side.

You missed it. It is there in the subsequent posts.

When Richards said ...

I don't feel Dhoni is certain to be a Test-class cricketer.

I responded ...

Absolutely. Spot on.

And when Pasag asked

Regardless of Dhoni being good enough or not, do people think he'll ever be dropped even putting the captaincy aside for a sec?

I commented

Doubtful but then Sehwag did not look like he could ever be dropped from the test side not so long back before he actually was.

According to me the ONLY reason for not making Dhoni the captain is that he is not a 'cert', yet, for a test side. It is patently dishonest on the part of the selectors to give any other reason for his not being made captain.

If they felt that they did not want to 'belittle' the odi skipper (and the new GOD of the blue billion) they should have taken the less damaging line of Kumble is by far the best person for the job and made him the captain for at least the full season.

Since my original post was more about the 'wrong reasons' for selecting Kumble, I did not belabour the point but my views on Dhoni's keeping and batting are too well known to bear repeating

 

[Perm]

Dhoni's glovework (and batting to an extent) in test cricket is still too unproven for him to be "undroppable". One bad series and KKD will be back in the race, especially if Sehwag, Gambhir or Chopra stake a claim at the top. The selectors love Dhoni but they love Karthik as well. Don't forget about Parthiv, though it seems his keeping still sucks.

I disagree. Dhoni is fast becoming a cricketing hero in India, mainly due to his ODI exploits and charisma off the field, and I don't think the selectors will drop him unless he can't score a run and Karthik is hitting centuries every other Test. I know it's not really fair, but I just don't see Dhoni being dropped from the Test team anytime soon, unless the selectors grow a pair of testicles.

 

[SJS]

His keeping DOES suck. And I think the selectors love MSD more than they love KKD.

Its the public that loves Dhoni and the sponsors love anyone who is loved so much by the public.

And its the sponsors who matter more than the selectors. sometimes. There is more money riding on Dhoni than any other cricketer with the possible exception of Sachin. Once they invest so much on a single player sponsors will move heaven and earth to keep the player 'in the picture'.

No one in BCCI is in a position to ignore the pressure of the sponsors. This is the ugliest fact of Indian cricket.

 

[honestbharani]

You missed it. It is there in the subsequent posts.

When Richards said ...

I responded ...


And when Pasag asked


I commented


According to me the ONLY reason for not making Dhoni the captain is that he is not a 'cert', yet, for a test side. It is patently dishonest on the part of the selectors to give any other reason for his not being made captain.

If they felt that they did not want to 'belittle' the odi skipper (and the new GOD of the blue billion) they should have taken the less damaging line of Kumble is by far the best person for the job and made him the captain for at least the full season.

Since my original post was more about the 'wrong reasons' for selecting Kumble, I did not belabour the point but my views on Dhoni's keeping and batting are too well known to bear repeating

yeah, it was the last post on that page and for some stupid reason, I assumed that was the last post in the thread at that time.


sorry.

 

[honestbharani]

Its the public that loves Dhoni and the sponsors love anyone who is loved so much by the public.

And its the sponsors who matter more than the selectors. sometimes. There is more money riding on Dhoni than any other cricketer with the possible exception of Sachin. Once they invest so much on a single player sponsors will move heaven and earth to keep the player 'in the picture'.

No one in BCCI is in a position to ignore the pressure of the sponsors. This is the ugliest fact of Indian cricket.

yeah, but the resultant equation is that the selectors love MSD.



yeah, maybe it should actually read "the selectors love the sponsors who love Dhoni"...

 

[SJS]

yeah, but the resultant equation is that the selectors love MSD.



yeah, maybe it should actually read "the selectors love the sponsors who love Dhoni"...

What do you think is going on in Dravid's head at this time HB?

 

[jeevan]

What do you think is going on in Dravid's head at this time HB?

That Lara was correct, ie cricketers are first and foremost entertainers. And almost everything makes sense through that lens.

 

[silentstriker]

That Lara was correct, ie cricketers are first and foremost entertainers. And almost everything makes sense through that lens.

Crickets first and foremost job is to do what they can to win - which in the end will be the most entertainment for the masses.

Otherwise they should just take cricket balls and learn to juggle.

 

[laksh_01]

A Very Good decesion... Hez a decent choise... All the best to Mr.A.Kumble!

 

[Richard]

yeah, it was the last post on that page and for some stupid reason, I assumed that was the last post in the thread at that time.


sorry.

If I had several quid (or several million rupees, whatever way you look at it) every time I did that I'd be extremely rich by now.

Hang on... I am Rich...