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Andrew Strauss - Not a bad start, chap.

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social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
twctopcat said:
Very true!! Vaughan may well return from the depths, hope springs eternal.
Key is technically a very good player - needs to put a higher price on his wicket though.

Vaughan - see Hayden - "form is temporary, class is eternal"

You can guarantee that the Australians are more worried about Vaughan at this stage than any other player.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
so much so in fact that till today almost everyone gets on hussains back for not batting first on perfect batting conditions?[/QUOTE]

Main point here was that the commentators felt Hussein gave immediate psychological advantage to Australia as his decision indicated that he had no faith in his own batsmen.

The conditions were good for bowling but a combination of ragged bowling, inept fielding and MAINLY outstanding batting did irreparable damage to England's Ashes hopes.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
social said:
Impossible to say at this stage.

Murali, Warne, Kumble, Harbijhan, Kaneria, and MacGill are in a totally different class to anything he has faced before.
Its impossibly to say, but you can make a rough guess as to whether or not he looks to be comfortable against spin by looking just at the way he bats.

social said:
Remember, even someone like Ponting, who'll end up as an all-time great, struggled against spinners in their own conditions..
i repeat, ponting will not go down as an all time great if he continues to be as abysmal as he has been in india. its simply impossibly to go down as an all time great if you have such an obvious weakness. if strauss does the same, he wont to.

social said:
However, if he attempts to play, say, Warne in the way that he has been playing Boje (in a stagnant position on the crease waiting for the inevitable bad ball) history would say that he'll go the way of everyone else that has tried the same thing.
i dont know about that, strauss plays spin in a very similar fashion that trescothick does, and tresco is a fairly good player of spin.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
tooextracool said:
ive never actually said that he was better than langer, but as ive shown earlier, hayden isnt proven on seamer friendly wickets. so if strauss were to fail to conditions unfamiliar to him he would simply be pulling off a hayden.
Even if Hayden is susceptible on seaming wickets (something I believe to be a fallacy), I have no doubt that if you produced a contract to Strauss guaranteeing him a record similar to Hayden's after 65 tests or whatever, he would knock you over in the rush to put pen to paper.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
social said:
Main point here was that the commentators felt Hussein gave immediate psychological advantage to Australia as his decision indicated that he had no faith in his own batsmen.

The conditions were good for bowling but a combination of ragged bowling, inept fielding and MAINLY outstanding batting did irreparable damage to England's Ashes hopes.
nope the conditions were flat, there was a cloud cover at the start of the game which led hussain to thinking that it migh move about. of course with the sun coming out in the first half of the first session, it proved to be a really poor decision. nonetheless i might also add that hayden was dropped 3 times in that inning, so whatever way we look at it, he was fortunate to score those runs.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
i repeat, ponting will not go down as an all time great if he continues to be as abysmal as he has been in india. its simply impossibly to go down as an all time great if you have such an obvious weakness. if strauss does the same, he wont to.

Ponting has basically had one series in India (this year was a one-off test for him on a "doctored" wicket after being out for months) and he was abysmal.

However, he has plundered Murali in Sri Lanka on, shall we say, spinner-friendly tracks and has a Test batting average of over 55. I'd say his place in cricket history is secure.

In any event, it will probably be a moot point as Australia is not due to tour India for another 7 years.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
social said:
Even if Hayden is susceptible on seaming wickets (something I believe to be a fallacy), I have no doubt that if you produced a contract to Strauss guaranteeing him a record similar to Hayden's after 65 tests or whatever, he would knock you over in the rush to put pen to paper.
if strauss had the same record as hayden, he would in all likelyhood have succeeded on seamer friendly wickets already because he would be playing half of his tests in england where you could expect at least 1 out of 3 tests to assist the bowlers significantly. and strauss has already done that in fact in his most recent test against SA and against the WI at old trafford.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
tooextracool said:
if strauss had the same record as hayden, he would in all likelyhood have succeeded on seamer friendly wickets already because he would be playing half of his tests in england where you could expect at least 1 out of 3 tests to assist the bowlers significantly. and strauss has already done that in fact in his most recent test against SA and against the WI at old trafford.
Most tracks in England these days are incredibly flat - probably the best batting wickets in the world.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
social said:
Ponting has basically had one series in India (this year was a one-off test for him on a "doctored" wicket after being out for months) and he was abysmal.
hes actually had 8 tests in india, 2 whole series and a one off test before the most recent one, at an overall average of 12. and while he cannot be blamed for his most recent opportunity, it must be said that he wasted another chance to prove himself in conditions where hes never proven himself before.

social said:
However, he has plundered Murali in Sri Lanka on, shall we say, spinner-friendly tracks
yes he did, of course it doesnt change the fact that hes failed miserably for an extended period of time in another country.

social said:
and has a Test batting average of over 55. I'd say his place in cricket history is secure.
you dont become a great simply based on statistical data i can assure you, i personally dont remember any other great with such a poor record in another country after anywhere near as many tests.

social said:
In any event, it will probably be a moot point as Australia is not due to tour India for another 7 years.
too bad for him, should have made the most of his last opportunity then.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
social said:
Most tracks in England these days are incredibly flat - probably the best batting wickets in the world.
you must be referring to australia. we still produce a seaming wicket at least once every 3 tests, probably more often.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
tooextracool said:
you must be referring to australia. we still produce a seaming wicket at least once every 3 tests, probably more often.
Beautiful!

Ashes should be retained very quickly once again.

Anyone betting on 10 days this time!
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I simply dont agree that 1 out of 3 wickets in England favour seam bowling anymore - the evidence simply doesnt back it up.

Whilst there is always the potential for weather conditions to play their part, e.g. overcast skies favouring swing, etc., for the most part English wickets are v good for batting. Lords and the Oval are, in fact, 2 of the best batting wickets in the world.

When coupled with short and quick outfields, non-oppressive weather, and unbiased crowds, you have, on average, batting conditions the equal of anywhere.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
social said:
I simply dont agree that 1 out of 3 wickets in England favour seam bowling anymore - the evidence simply doesnt back it up.

Whilst there is always the potential for weather conditions to play their part, e.g. overcast skies favouring swing, etc., for the most part English wickets are v good for batting. Lords and the Oval are, in fact, 2 of the best batting wickets in the world.

When coupled with short and quick outfields, non-oppressive weather, and unbiased crowds, you have, on average, batting conditions the equal of anywhere.
look at the 2 most recent series, headingly offered plenty of seam movement against NZ, as did old trafford against the WI. trent bridge against NZ too had something in it for the pace bowlers. go back to a year ago, headingly vs SA was a seamers paradise, while trent bridge was almost impossible to bat on in that 2nd inning.
 

Craig

World Traveller
tooextracool said:
that was certainly not seamer friendly, even brett lee managed to get 60 odd in the same inning.
Because maybe he went out and played his shots and basically had a bit of a slog - if you watched the innings you might say so - Lee plays that way.

tooextracool said:
so much so in fact that till today almost everyone gets on hussains back for not batting first on perfect batting conditions?
Yes, and if you had seen the pitch that it could have suited the seamers if England had bowled and fielded better. If Australia bowled first and a lot better then what England did, then England more then likely wouldn't have lasted very long.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Craig said:
Because maybe he went out and played his shots and basically had a bit of a slog - if you watched the innings you might say so - Lee plays that way.
lee is hit and miss, hit and miss doesnt work on a wicket that assists the seamers.

Craig said:
Yes, and if you had seen the pitch that it could have suited the seamers if England had bowled and fielded better. If Australia bowled first and a lot better then what England did, then England more then likely wouldn't have lasted very long.
england wouldnt have lasted long because several of their players were injured, and most of the others were rather poor anyways, not to mention of course that the australian bowlers bar lee were more than capable of getting wickets on flat wickets.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
tooextracool said:
hes actually had 8 tests in india, 2 whole series and a one off test before the most recent one, at an overall average of 12. and while he cannot be blamed for his most recent opportunity, it must be said that he wasted another chance to prove himself in conditions where hes never proven himself before.



yes he did, of course it doesnt change the fact that hes failed miserably for an extended period of time in another country.



you dont become a great simply based on statistical data i can assure you, i personally dont remember any other great with such a poor record in another country after anywhere near as many tests.

try Shane Warne vs India



too bad for him, should have made the most of his last opportunity then.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
and how many spinners have succeeded in india? not many
and personally an average of 43 with the ball is nowhere near as bad (especially considering that he bowled better than his figures suggested this time around) as 12 is with the bat.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
social said:
The conditions were good for bowling but a combination of ragged bowling, inept fielding and MAINLY outstanding batting did irreparable damage to England's Ashes hopes.
I don't think it helped when the one bowler who had looked reasonable got that terrible injury.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
social said:
too bad for him, should have made the most of his last opportunity then.

To be fair, he did actually do well this time, and had he had the benefit of playing in that 4th Test, I think his record would've been even more impressive.
 
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