Alright here it is. CW chooses the best ever keeper. 32 men duke it out

[Bolo]

I dont know how you judge the best pure keeper overall tbh, and how you could decide if Healy was "better" than Knott or vice versa, but I do think Healy got forgotten because of how influential Gilchrist was with the bat immediately after Healy, and the fact that Gilchrist was a critical part of probably the strongest team ever assembled.

As a pure keeper without accounting for batting, I'm not sure. To claim any one player as a clear-cut best as the article does is hyperbolic though. Healy was extremely good. Potentially the best I've seen, but Boucher also has an argument. And contenders from other eras, with Knott probably being the closest to a concensus pick.

Gilchrists batting definitely made people forget Healy, because he broke the idea that a specialist keeper is good enough on top of his keeping records

 

[vcs]

Dujon has decent stats with the bat, why isn't he rated alongside the likes of Knott and Healy? Because he didn't keep to spin?

 

[Red]

Dujon has decent stats with the bat, why isn't he rated alongside the likes of Knott and Healy? Because he didn't keep to spin?

I think so, and it's also why I'll never really rate Boucher as much as some people do. You have to keep to a lot of spin to lay claim to being the GOAT keeper imo.

 

[Bolo]

It felt like Boucher was faster than Healy and at least as athletic standing back, and neither of them really dropped anything in their prime, but spin is a pretty big question mark.

 

[trundler]

Knott's batting is what separates him from other keepers, like Gilchrist. If we're going best pure keeper, surely Tallon and Godfrey Evans have to be considered.

 

[Migara]

So this has been in the works for a long time but it hit a snag - we couldnt decide whether or not to include a keeper's batting ability. I have decided that it should be included. it's part of their contribution to the side after all


so just weigh up their keeping and batting ability when making your choice. im sure some voters consider awesome glove skills to be more useful than a bit of batting ability for a wicket keeper anyway


i've set a neat little structure here, with chronological style seeding.


requirments: min 10 tests, min 50% of tests played as keeper


Jack Blackham vs Dick Lilley
Bert Oldfield vs Bert Strudwick
George Duckworth vs Jock Cameron
Les Ames vs Don Tallon

Wally Grout vs John Waite
Godfrey Evans vs Imtiaz Ahmed
Farokh Engineer vs Allan Knott
Wasim Bari vs Syed Kirmani

Denis Lindsay vs Deryck Murray
Rod Marsh vs Jeff Dujon
Jack Russell vs Alec Stewart
Ian Healy vs Dave Richardson

Ridley Jacobs vs Moin Khan
Adam Parore vs Mark Boucher
Adam Gilchrist vs Andy Flower
MS Dhoni vs Brendan McCullum


start voting

Palpable lack of Prasanna Jayawardane

 

[Migara]

To be honest, against such quality fast bowling (plus Mallett and Jenner who were very good spinners) I don't think that Gilchrist would have done much better. Especially if Lillee went around the wicket and targeted his off-stump..

He did it against an attack with Wasim, Waqar and Mushtaq to win amatch, then repeated it against Vaas, Murali and Herath in Kandy in 2003. Gilly made some ridiculously good test innings against quality attacks.

Gilly did much better against bowlers who attacked him. More than Lillie it would be a McGrath or a Garner would get him. Or a Marshall or a Shoaib to send and absolutely unplayable one.

 

[Engle]

Gilly averaged 60+ in Tests on completing 2,000 runs, remarkable for a wkeeper and a player with no statistical aspirations.

Speaking of statistics, who was the first wkeeper to attain a double-century in a Test innings ? ( no checking please )

 

[AndrewB]

Imtiaz Ahmed?

 

[Engle]

Imtiaz Ahmed?

Correct. Not only that, he was the first Asian to do so IIRC.

 

[Jack1]

Gilchrist

 

[stephen]

He did it against an attack with Wasim, Waqar and Mushtaq to win amatch, then repeated it against Vaas, Murali and Herath in Kandy in 2003. Gilly made some ridiculously good test innings against quality attacks.

Gilly did much better against bowlers who attacked him. More than Lillie it would be a McGrath or a Garner would get him. Or a Marshall or a Shoaib to send and absolutely unplayable one.

As the 12th man once sang:

Do not bowl short to Gilchrist, he will punish you.

 

[trundler]

Judging keepers (on keeping ability alone) you haven't seen is even more futile than judging spinners you haven't seen. There's no useful stats for it. You can only judge what you see, imo. I doubt many here have seen Tallon, Evans, Oldfield, even Knott (I haven't seen any of them either). For all we know Blackham could have been the greatest.

 

[Bolo]

Judging keepers (on keeping ability alone) you haven't seen is even more futile than judging spinners you haven't seen. There's no useful stats for it. You can only judge what you see, imo. I doubt many here have seen Tallon, Evans, Oldfield, even Knott (I haven't seen any of them either). For all we know Blackham could have been the greatest.

Makes sense unless there is overwhelming concensus amoungst a large group of people who have seen the players being compared. I don't think concensus exists with wks, but I think you could judge the quality of Jonty Rhodes's infielding without having seen it based on how many people have seen him and other top fielders and how highly it is regarded.

 

[harsh.ag]

The keepers who didn't stand up to pace, it's difficult for me to call them the best in terms of skill

 

[Starfighter]

As the 12th man once sang:

Do not bowl short to Gilchrist, he will punish you.

That wasn't the 12th Man.

 

[Bolo]

The keepers who didn't stand up to pace, it's difficult for me to call them the best in terms of skill

Superfluous skillset for a number of them though? Just about no top quicks bowled slow enough for any wk to stand up to them.

 

[trundler]

Makes sense unless there is overwhelming concensus amoungst a large group of people who have seen the players being compared. I don't think concensus exists with wks, but I think you could judge the quality of Jonty Rhodes's infielding without having seen it based on how many people have seen him and other top fielders and how highly it is regarded.

Yes, among his contemporaries that is. How do we know he was better than Colin Bland?

 

[trundler]

Superfluous skillset for a number of them though? Just about no top quicks bowled slow enough for any wk to stand up to them.

Didn't Gilchrist enact a stumping off McGrath once?

 

[Bolo]

Yes, among his contemporaries that is. How do we know he was better than Colin Bland?

While Bland was an excellent fielder a large part of his rep was based around the fact that he was the best at throwing down the stumps. It's not as important a skill as stopping and catching for an infielder. Without having seen Bland, I'm still reasonably comfortable putting Rhodes ahead as an infielder.

Didn't Gilchrist enact a stumping off McGrath once?

He stood up to McGrath a fair bit I think. McGrath is the only ATG slow enough for a wk to stand up to.