5th Test (The Oval) - 31st July to 4th August

[GIMH]

Yeah, and England getting the best of the conditions a majority of the time...and they still only managed to draw.

The conditions are why it was only a draw you absolute buffoon

 

[Prince EWS]

I agree with you that it has clearly improved the batting. What I don't understand is why you say you hate it - surely improving the batting is the key metric for assessing it? (To say nothing of the entertainment factor which I'd say is undeniable).

Oh I just personally don't like it. I don't care if it makes England better or not if I hate it.

But even beyond that - the entire franchise grew outside its remit for a while and we got Day 1 declarations and people saying Ali Cook wouldn't be selected.

The selection thing is what pissed me off the most. If you say you're going to pick the best players and then unleash them - cool! But if you say you'll only pick players who bat in a particular style already, to me it defeats the purpose of what made it work in the first place. It wasn't just picking aggressive bats, it was picking the best bats and then letting them bat aggressively.

 

[GIMH]

A lot of that is just talk though, right. The funky selections have generally been bowlers. Livingstone and Jacks you could point to but they were picked because they're spinners.

Batting line-up has only really changed due to injury and Bairstow being a spent force.

Bethell, I suppose you could say, but I think they rate him as a talent.

 

[honestbharani]

A lot of that is just talk though, right. The funky selections have generally been bowlers. Livingstone and Jacks you could point to but they were picked because they're spinners.

Batting line-up has only really changed due to injury and Bairstow being a spent force.

Bethell, I suppose you could say, but I think they rate him as a talent.

Bazball has worked for batters but is more miss than hit with bowlers. Its that simple, I feel.

 

[ankitj]

Bumrah is to blame for Indian batters failing to chase 192 at Lords.

BS

 

[Molehill]

Bazball has worked for batters but is more miss than hit with bowlers. Its that simple, I feel.

It would help if they could ever get their best seam attack on the park at the same time.

 

[Chin Music]

It would help if they could ever get their best seam attack on the park at the same time.

Or anything approaching the best seam attack. Archer/Atkinson/Carse/Stokes really won't be so bad, especially outside England. We do need a more seam/swing specialist over here though. That was meant to be Woakes although the 3 out of 4 pitches (let's leave the Oval out of this) were never really going to be those on which he was likely to prosper in the series just gone.

 

[Prince EWS]

A lot of that is just talk though, right. The funky selections have generally been bowlers. Livingstone and Jacks you could point to but they were picked because they're spinners.

Batting line-up has only really changed due to injury and Bairstow being a spent force.

Bethell, I suppose you could say, but I think they rate him as a talent.

Yeah but I can hate it because of talk. As I said earlier I do think it made the batting better. I was asked why I hated it.

And declarations aren't just talk either.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah but I can hate it because of talk. As I said earlier I do think it made the batting better. I was asked why I hated it.

And declarations aren't just talk either.

I could also say, but I mostly can't be bothered, that the continued selections of Crawley and Pope (and I like/rate Pope) are also part of this.

It also wasn't just talk to not select Ben Compton for the Lions.

I think it mostly started how you and I would regard the successes of it, and then they thought they were saving Test cricket and it got ****ing stupid. Then they dialled it back again.

 

[Molehill]

I could also say, but I mostly can't be bothered, that the continued selections of Crawley and Pope (and I like/rate Pope) are also part of this.

Unfortunately, there's not really anyone pushing them for their places. We'd love to have someone better there, but I don't think they exist at the mo.

 

[Arachnödouche2.0]

Compton got rolled under Bazball did he? I see he just made a double too at a sober SR of 58. Just the sort of guy you might've invested in before a tour of Aus.

 

[centurymaker]

BS

 

[ankitj]

Ok I missed sarcasm it looks like.

 

[Ju7]

He's not great vs the ball coming back in, isn't amazing vs spin, and a shaky starter. These become exhaserbated in 3th/4th innings when there's more in it for the spinners/pacers get more inconsistent bounce.

Is there also an issue about whether he can handle the pressure of batting in the 4th innings?

 

[Ju7]

Definitely that. I have been raging over the last couple of months that he hasn't been taken aside earlier in his career and had serious sessions on trying to sort this out. He doesn't play white ball cricket for England so he has sufficient downtime to try and address this, but he has barely evolved as a player.

Yep.You want to see progress/development in a player and we don't with him.

 

[Ju7]

Unfortunately, there's not really anyone pushing them for their places. We'd love to have someone better there, but I don't think they exist at the mo.

How to judge that?They seem to go on gut reaction rather than stats.Hameed has had a decent summer and Bethell has faced about 60 red ball deliveries this summer.But their hunch says Bethel so that's what they will go with.
I know Duckett/Crawley have a good opening partnership but it staggers me that Crawley constantly gets picked.
Back in the day when I started watching cricket (80's) an average of 40 in Test cricket meant you were a decent Test bat.As that figure has gone up it makes a mockery of the decision to pick him.
We get told he is good on the bouncier Aussie pitches.Let's see how good.

 

[Shady Slim]

Oh I just personally don't like it. I don't care if it makes England better or not if I hate it.

But even beyond that - the entire franchise grew outside its remit for a while and we got Day 1 declarations and people saying Ali Cook wouldn't be selected.

The selection thing is what pissed me off the most. If you say you're going to pick the best players and then unleash them - cool! But if you say you'll only pick players who bat in a particular style already, to me it defeats the purpose of what made it work in the first place. It wasn't just picking aggressive bats, it was picking the best bats and then letting them bat aggressively.

and none of this is to mention the replacement of some of the most varied and exciting (and conducive to tests generally) pitches in the world with painful roads