4 & 5

[TheJediBrah]

Smith record in SL avg . 40, UAE avg. 40, BAN avg. 30 . His record is excellent in only 1 country in Asia ( IND=60) . In rest of Asian countries it is good not extraordinary and befitting a no. 2 all time Test bat.

All those are based on 1 series each, and they aren't even that bad, and the SL and Ban series were heavily doctored wickets. You and clearly have a personal, partisan stake in this, as demonstrated clearly with comments like this:

But 2 Australian posters (stephen and Burgey )

You're seeing nationalistic bias everywhere because it's the basis for your arguments. You need to get over it, rating Smith as no.2 is perfectly reasonable. At least as reasonable as rating Sachin there.

You're trying too hard and as a result all your arguments are stretching and have become illogical. IMO just leave it at "Sachin played for a lot longer so I think he's better" and call it a day, because all your other contrived arguments to try and make Smith look worse are achieving nothing but destroying your credibility.

 

[sunilz]

All those are based on 1 series each, and they aren't even that bad, and the SL and Ban series were heavily doctored wickets. You and clearly have a personal, partisan stake in this, as demonstrated clearly with comments like this:

You're seeing nationalistic bias everywhere because it's the basis for your arguments. You need to get over it, rating Smith as no.2 is perfectly reasonable. At least as reasonable as rating Sachin there.

You're trying too hard and as a result all your arguments are stretching and have become illogical. IMO just leave it at "Sachin played for a lot longer so I think he's better" and call it a day, because all your other contrived arguments to try and make Smith look worse are achieving nothing but destroying your credibility.

The only country that doctors wickets massively is Australia. 90% of your batsman can't play swing or spin. So only thing we get in Australia is bouncy road.

Try producing wicket like SA or ENG , this would atleast make cricket in Australia interesting.

 

[TheJediBrah]

The only country that doctors wickets massively is Australia. 90% of your batsman can't play swing or spin. So only thing we get in Australia is bouncy road.

Try producing wicket like SA or ENG , this would atleast make cricket in Australia interesting.

You're beyond embarrasing yourself, just stop

 

[Burgey]

I know you're probably sayign this tongue-in-cheek but nah. If he was from any other country it would have been a 1 game ban at most, or likely not even any ban at all given he wasn't directly involved. His board's fault.

Not going to claim he had a great series, but he averaged 45 which is pretty decent for most players. And that's including completely failing in the game that Aus won. When the series was up for grabs in the last 2 Tests he was about as good as ever. Not Smith's fault they lost those games.

If we blame for Sachin for not winning World Cups though it's a fair comparison

Why are you taking this so personally? You've lost your bearings on logic and common sense. If someone saying Smith is better than Sachin for whatever reason drives you this bonkers that's a real issue

It does have that effect on him and it’s ****ing hilarious. The bloke is basically a fanboi trope come to life.

 

[Burgey]

You're beyond embarrasing yourself, just stop

He’s wound up like a thousand day clock.

 

[stephen]

The only country that doctors wickets massively is Australia. 90% of your batsman can't play swing or spin. So only thing we get in Australia is bouncy road.

Try producing wicket like SA or ENG , this would atleast make cricket in Australia interesting.

I don't think you'll find much argument amongst Australian fans if you're arguing for more sporting wickets but CA put out very flat decks so that countries touring Australia have a chance at taking it to day 5.

India beating Australia twice in three seasons is a massive accomplishment, given Australia had literally been beaten once in the prior decade at home by a country not named South Africa.

I mean Australia roll out flat decks for Sri Lanka and the game barely lasts 3 days. They're not going to give anything other than roads while Cummins and Hazlewood are still around.

 

[sunilz]

I don't think you'll find much argument amongst Australian fans if you're arguing for more sporting wickets but CA put out very flat decks so that countries touring Australia have a chance at taking it to day 5.

India beating Australia twice in three seasons is a massive accomplishment, given Australia had literally been beaten once in the prior decade at home by a country not named South Africa.

I mean Australia roll out flat decks for Sri Lanka and the game barely lasts 3 days. They're not going to give anything other than roads while Cummins and Hazlewood are still around.

So, why can't the same set of bowlers massively outbowl English and SA Pacers overseas. Fact is Australia have tall and fast bowlers who can utilise their home conditions to perfection. The moment AUS pitches start favouring swing bowling Hobart 2016 will start occuring frequently.

Even in Ashes 2017 , Anderson wrecked Aussie line up in Pink ball test as the pitch was assisting swing bowling.

 

[trundler]

Yay, another episode of sunilz v stephen

 

[TheJediBrah]

So, why can't the same set of bowlers massively outbowl English and SA Pacers overseas. Fact is Australia have tall and fast bowlers who can utilise their home conditions to perfection. The moment AUS pitches start favouring swing bowling Hobart 2016 will start occuring frequently.

Even in Ashes 2017 , Anderson wrecked Aussie line up in Pink ball test as the pitch was assisting swing bowling.

Why do you keep changing the subject to make nationalistic attacks? You are so wrong regardless. Claiming that Australia have been doctoring pitches is laughable, if anything over the last 10 years the opposite has happened and the introduction of drop-in wickets and other factors have made the majority Test wickets slower and lower. Maybe on the roads have suited them to some extent but if Aus wanted to doctor wickets they should be making them as fast and bouncy as possible which is, again, like the opposite of what's been happening.

 

[Raz0r6ack]

So, why can't the same set of bowlers massively outbowl English and SA Pacers overseas. Fact is Australia have tall and fast bowlers who can utilise their home conditions to perfection. The moment AUS pitches start favouring swing bowling Hobart 2016 will start occuring frequently.

Even in Ashes 2017 , Anderson wrecked Aussie line up in Pink ball test as the pitch was assisting swing bowling.

Isn't swing more determined by overhead conditions and the ball being used then the actual pitch? Unless you're talking reverse swing.

The only places you're likely to get swing in Australia is Melbourne or Hobart or in the evening of day/night matches. Everywhere else is pretty hot during the summer.

 

[ma1978]

Smith is probably number 5 or 6 on Australian batsmen let alone number two of all time. Needs a lot stronger body of work to get ahead of Chappell, Ponting, Border and Waugh. Could get there but not for five or six years.

 

[trundler]

He's easily ahead of Chappell based on body of work

 

[ma1978]

Not when you adjust for era and relative ease of Aussie pitches specifically now vs then

 

[ma1978]

Jokes about him on the other thread aside, I really do rate Smith.

but I think context adjustment of stats would bring those numbers back to earth and it’s a lot harder to do something for a 150 tests like Waugh and Ponting and Tendulkar than half that

 

[trundler]

Nah. Chappell played only two more years and didn't play much at all outside of Australia and England. Smith's Ashes and India record put him miles ahead. Chappell actively picked and chose tours too. Smith is the greater player.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

It doesn’t need mumbo jumbo about bodies of work or context adjustment of stats. It just takes a bit of common sense to realise how good Smith is.

 

[Bolo.]

Nah. Chappell played only two more years and didn't play much at all outside of Australia and England. Smith's Ashes and India record put him miles ahead. Chappell actively picked and chose tours too. Smith is the greater player.

Chappell played a lot more than 2 more years. Between covid, the ban, and not being able to secure a regular place in the side for a few years from debut, Smith has missed hell of a lot of cricket.

Do you give Cummins longevity points for debutting almost a decade ago?

This said, while I rate Chappell highly, and was considering him a leading candidate for a world XI a few years ago, I really can't justify rating him ahead of Smith.

 

[trundler]

Chappell also played less than 12 because of avoiding tours TBF although yeah Smith has an effectively 7ish year career so far. But longevity isn't exactly a point in Chappell's favour. Technical master and the best tall batsman aesthetically but Chappell's body work is certainly way more questionable than anyone else who's competing for that #4 slot

 

[Bolo.]

Chappell also played less than 12 because of avoiding tours TBF although yeah Smith has an effectively 7ish year career so far. But longevity isn't exactly a point in Chappell's favour. Technical master and the best tall batsman aesthetically but Chappell's body work is certainly way more questionable than anyone else who's competing for that #4 slot

Pretty sure I have never agreed with a rebuttal to a point I was making on CW this strongly. Well said.

 

[honestbharani]

Yay, another episode of sunilz v stephen

glad you are ignoring the rest.