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Thread: Pool D - France, Ireland, Italy, Canada, Romania

  1. #16
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    What are Romania like? Would be good to extend the 6 Nations to 8 with 2 pools. Georgia are already at least as good as Scotland and Italy.

  2. #17
    Hall of Fame Member Hurricane's Avatar
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    Poor Canada :sadface:
    1) Ross is Boss.
    2) See point 1.

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  3. #18
    Cricketer Of The Year ripper868's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    This is my hobby horse. Will not yield ground on it.
    To be fair mate, you need ground before it can be yielded. Should we also not just combine all the Asian nations, all the smaller Oceania nations, all the South American, African, fringe European nations. Let's just make it a 7 zone world cup. AUS/NZ v Africa v Europe v North America v South America v Oceania v Asia.

    Japan's win over South Africa shows what can happen with sustained growth and devlopment, it may well take 20 years for USA and Canada to compete at the top level, but so be it - a gimmick (and that's exactly how it would be seen) where the teams are combined would be farcical.
    Parmi

  4. #19
    Hall of Fame Member Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripper868 View Post
    To be fair mate, you need ground before it can be yielded. Should we also not just combine all the Asian nations, all the smaller Oceania nations, all the South American, African, fringe European nations. Let's just make it a 7 zone world cup. AUS/NZ v Africa v Europe v North America v South America v Oceania v Asia.

    Japan's win over South Africa shows what can happen with sustained growth and devlopment, it may well take 20 years for USA and Canada to compete at the top level, but so be it - a gimmick (and that's exactly how it would be seen) where the teams are combined would be farcical.
    Wow - you are equally passionate in the other direction. Fair dues to your point. Still Japan got their win in part due to Naturalised players who play in their lucrative club competition. That victory is what, their 2nd in 20 years at a world cup.

    Are the West Indies a gimmick because they are a joined up group of countries?

    I would expand my idea as well by the way in both cricket and rugby. I wouldn't stop at just USA and Canada. I would look for other good fits. I wouldn't force two countries together where they had no connection but USA and Canada are North America. And both countries heavily identify with each other (even though are proud to be different).

    Other mergers - The Islands in rugby. Tonga, Samoa, and Fiji have been nearly good enough since the 1980s. They could definitely compete as a combined side. New Zealand recently consented to play a match against Samoa in Samoa. We won but it was a good game. There is no talk of us going back there.
    We would go back to the Islands if they could threaten to beat us. Money would pour into their development and players would choose to play for them instead of the All Blacks. We have had goodness knows how many Island boys suit up for us because they want to play at the highest level. They can't get that playing for Samoa at least not consistently.

    Likewise if you were a world class player in Canada would you enjoy your potential matches:

    This is who they played in 2014:
    June 7, vs. Japan (Pacific Nations Cup), at Burnaby, L 34-25
    June 14, vs. Scotland, at Toronto, L 19-17
    June 21, vs. USA (Pacific Nations Cup), at Sacramento, L 38-35
    Nov 2, vs. RFU Championship XV, at Worcester, L 28-23
    Nov 7, vs. Namibia, at Colwyn Bay, Wales, W 17-13
    Nov 14, vs. Samoa, at Vannes, France L 23-13
    Nov 22, vs. Romania, at Bucharest, L 18-9

    If they combined with USA number 1 they would win more, number 2 they would get more test matches so they can develop more.

    Are there down sides to my idea of combining USA and Canada. Absolutely. Each team would have to give up some of its patriotism. Fans would get over that though and learn to cheer on the North American side.

    My final point is this. Corporate sponsorship.

    If USA and Canada can combine and actually win. They will get mega dollars invested in them. The grass roots development in their game would take off.

    I appreciate that you will never agree to this idea. But only one of us is a Canadian citizen out of the two of us and that is me. I have been to ice hockey games. I have frozen in minus twenty degree temperatures. I have played club rugby in Canada and heard some young Canuck dream of getting his parents to let him to travel to New Zealand and attend Auckland Grammar.

    I have the best interests of Canadian rugby at heart moreso than you do because unless I am mistaken you have never been there. I was there for 16 years. I also played rugby in the heartland of mid western USA.

    That is my recommendation as unpopular as it may sound. The only problem with my idea as I see it is that it is different and people don't like different ideas.


  5. #20
    International Coach Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    Wow - you are equally passionate in the other direction. Fair dues to your point. Still Japan got their win in part due to Naturalised players who play in their lucrative club competition. That victory is what, their 2nd in 20 years at a world cup.

    Are the West Indies a gimmick because they are a joined up group of countries?
    Wi is a very special case though. The WI cricket team was formed at a time when all of the Carribean islands were properties of the British empire - so having one team for the region kinda made sense given that they were all fundamentally governed by the same nation.

    Over the ensuing decades the team became apart of the combined cultural fabric of the region, so that it continued to persist even after the political reality that lead to the team's formation had ceased.

    I can't think of many - or really any - other cases of seperate countries coming together to play as a combined side in international sport. Oh - Britain in the Olympics - but again there's the historical union of those nations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    I would expand my idea as well by the way in both cricket and rugby. I wouldn't stop at just USA and Canada. I would look for other good fits. I wouldn't force two countries together where they had no connection but USA and Canada are North America. And both countries heavily identify with each other (even though are proud to be different).

    Other mergers - The Islands in rugby. Tonga, Samoa, and Fiji have been nearly good enough since the 1980s. They could definitely compete as a combined side. New Zealand recently consented to play a match against Samoa in Samoa. We won but it was a good game. There is no talk of us going back there.
    We would go back to the Islands if they could threaten to beat us. Money would pour into their development and players would choose to play for them instead of the All Blacks. We have had goodness knows how many Island boys suit up for us because they want to play at the highest level. They can't get that playing for Samoa at least not consistently.
    Nah. We go back to the Northern Hemisphere every winter even though Scotland, Ireland and Wales combined have only managed to beat us twice in the last 100 years.

    The competitiveness of the Pacific Island nations isn't the problem. It's the financial side of the equation that is stopping us from making regular trips to the islands. The prospective audience for games against the Pacific Islands is tiny (especially given the games are played in the middle of the night for the all important European market).

    What's more, a combined PI team was already tried in the 00's, and a quick look at the wikipedia page for their results showed that - after a positive start - they actually were less competitive than their constituent parts over the same period. I don't know why that was - maybe they didn't have their best players available, or maybe the players struggle to summon the motivation when playing for a side that didn't really represent anything. Outside of New Zealand, there's no real sense of shared identity or collective history to hold a PI team together (at least not in the way that there is for WI). I don't think it really made much money for the PI unions either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    My final point is this. Corporate sponsorship.

    If USA and Canada can combine and actually win. They will get mega dollars invested in them. The grass roots development in their game would take off.

    I appreciate that you will never agree to this idea. But only one of us is a Canadian citizen out of the two of us and that is me. I have been to ice hockey games. I have frozen in minus twenty degree temperatures. I have played club rugby in Canada and heard some young Canuck dream of getting his parents to let him to travel to New Zealand and attend Auckland Grammar.

    I have the best interests of Canadian rugby at heart moreso than you do because unless I am mistaken you have never been there. I was there for 16 years. I also played rugby in the heartland of mid western USA.

    That is my recommendation as unpopular as it may sound. The only problem with my idea as I see it is that it is different and people don't like different ideas.
    And Hurricane, just because you have lived in Canada and legimately have Canadian rugby's best interests at heart, I don't think you should assume that the majority - or even a significant minority of NA rugby fans would feel the same way as you do. Or that the broader american public would get behind a combined team. I think there's a very strong chance that it would be seen as a bizarre arrangement - and a concession to the weakness of the two national sides (especially given that the US and Canada haven't had combined teams for any sports in the last 100 years or so as far as I'm aware). For this reason I have my doubts as to whether a NA team would generate any significant increase in sponsorship and wealth for the constituent unions - even if it did lead to an improvement in results.
    Last edited by Bahnz; 23-09-2015 at 03:28 AM.
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  6. #21
    Hall of Fame Member Hurricane's Avatar
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    What about the Ryder cup the crowds get into that.

  7. #22
    Hall of Fame Member Hurricane's Avatar
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    What about the Lions.

  8. #23
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    They're not really the same arrangement as WI or what you're proposing for an NA rugby side. They're more exhibition sides that get together on special occasions for countries where a popular interest in the sport already exists. And I'm not really sure about the extent to which either side has really spurred the development of the game within their constituent countries (though they are both undeniably immensely profitable).

  9. #24
    Hall of Fame Member Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    They're not really the same arrangement as WI or what you're proposing for an NA rugby side. They're more exhibition sides that get together on special occasions for countries where a popular interest in the sport already exists. And I'm not really sure about the extent to which either side has really spurred the development of the game within their constituent countries (though they are both undeniably immensely profitable).
    And popular amongst fans who have no problem cheering for a conglomerate side,

    Even if things started like the Lions with the odd tour here and there that would be enough for the time being. Can evaluate after some years to see whether to grow it further or walk away from it.

  10. #25
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    I actually like Hurricane's idea, at least in the short term.
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  11. #26
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    no way should canada get merged with anyone
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    I actually like Hurricane's idea, at least in the short term.
    Yeah but you merged South Africa with Western Australia. You got merge fever
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  13. #28
    Cricket Web Staff Member Howe_zat's Avatar
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    I'm ambivelent. I kinda like Hurricane's idea since he compared it to the Lions. But I think the USA success in 7s shows that the US ought to aim a bit higher and try to make it on their own. I wouldn't want 7s to take over as the dominant form of the game in the US because it'd be seen as the version where the 'proper' USA team got to play.

  14. #29
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    France being France - got pushed around by Romania but will be a threat to NZ or Argentina come quarter final time.
    Also France being France - I hope that this isn't as bad as it looks especially as we've just had an Argentinian banned for eye gouging:
    http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webconte...45_620x310.jpg

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    I'd need to see a video before condemning that. Could easily be incidental as he swiped for the ball.

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