5th Test (The Oval) - 31st July to 4th August

[capt_Luffy]

Kimber did a video on it recently. Apparently he suffers from the same thing as Smith where he really struggles to sleep during a Test. Smith has a similar second innings drop off.

Pope also has a serious issues with spin, which is more pronounced in the second innings.

It's kinda awesome that he still has one of the best 2nd innings Knocks ever, and that too in India.

 

[Isura]

I will say that this series has shone a light on how much Bazball's early success relied on Broad and Anderson being there to more or less guarantee 10 wickets at ~25 apiece. I love Stokes but he really shouldn't be the best bowler in the side.

So is it really bazball or all time great bowlers that contributed to the success?

 

[Prince EWS]

So is it really bazball or all time great bowlers that contributed to the success?

They had the same all time great bowlers and mostly the same batting personnel beforehand and pretty much sucked.

I hate Bazball and I think it actively hurts them when it applies to selection or declarations, but I do think it helped mentally free up some confused and trapped batsmen and gave them success they wouldn't have had without it, especially early on.

They went from a good bowling side and a very crap batting side to a good bowling side and a decent batting side. Now their bowling is much worse so their batting isn't holding things up so much, but it's hard to deny it improved their batting.

 

[Isura]

@SillyCowCorner1 @ashley bach View attachment 49094

birthdays are not uniformly distributed. I guess the same could be said for Gill’s toss strategy

 

[Nintendo]

They had the same all time great bowlers and mostly the same batting personnel beforehand and pretty much sucked.

I hate Bazball and I think it actively hurts them when it applies to selection or declarations, but I do think it helped mentally free up some confused and trapped batsmen and gave them success they wouldn't have had without it, especially early on.

They went from a good bowling side and a very crap batting side to a good bowling side and a decent batting side. Now their bowling is much worse so their batting isn't holding things up so much, but it's hard to deny it improved their batting.

This, 100%. England's win loss was 0.8 in the 3 years before bazball, 13 wins, 16 losses, ton of draws. In the same period post baz there 25 wins, 14 losses, w/l of ~1.75. even if they get 5/0'd in Australia like they did pre bazball (4-0 I know) there still 25-19 with a 1.3 wl. They've undoubtedly become a better team despite losing broad and Anderson. They've got a functional top 3 now and actually made there middle order better.

 

[Nintendo]

They had the same all time great bowlers and mostly the same batting personnel beforehand and pretty much sucked.

I hate Bazball and I think it actively hurts them when it applies to selection or declarations, but I do think it helped mentally free up some confused and trapped batsmen and gave them success they wouldn't have had without it, especially early on.

They went from a good bowling side and a very crap batting side to a good bowling side and a decent batting side. Now their bowling is much worse so their batting isn't holding things up so much, but it's hard to deny it improved their batting.

This, 100%. England's win loss was 0.8 in the 3 years before bazball, 13 wins, 16 losses, ton of draws. In the same period post baz there 25 wins, 14 losses, w/l of ~1.75. even if they get 5/0'd in Australia like they did pre bazball (4-0 I know) there still 25-19 with a 1.3 wl. They've undoubtedly become a better team despite losing broad and Anderson. They've got a functional top 3 now and actually made there middle order better.

 

[Ju7]

This, 100%. England's win loss was 0.8 in the 3 years before bazball, 13 wins, 16 losses, ton of draws. In the same period post baz there 25 wins, 14 losses, w/l of ~1.75. even if they get 5/0'd in Australia like they did pre bazball (4-0 I know) there still 25-19 with a 1.3 wl. They've undoubtedly become a better team despite losing broad and Anderson. They've got a functional top 3 now and actually made there middle order better.

I think Crawley and Pope are functional as best.The miidle order will be even better with the lessons learned by Brook and Smith after the Oval.

 

[centurymaker]

So much talk about Australia's top order.

If Australia's top order is messy at the moment (even though Khawaja, Marnus and Green aren't bad batters), then England's top order isn't any different with Crawley and Pope sitting there.

 

[Nintendo]

I think Crawley and Pope are functional as best.The miidle order will be even better with the lessons learned by Brook and Smith after the Oval.

Pope averages 40+ under McCullum. He's got a ton of flaws but he's MILES ahead of 2019-2022 Crawley/malan/Bairstow. Crawley is functional at best, but in his current state he's miles better than whoever else England tried in that period bar cook.

 

[Isura]

Pope averages 40+ under McCullum. He's got a ton of flaws but he's MILES ahead of 2019-2022 Crawley/malan/Bairstow. Crawley is functional at best, but in his current state he's miles better than whoever else England tried in that period bar cook.

The thing is Crawley especially has had way too many chances. Can't really say he's miles better than the rest when they haven't tried anyone else in a long time. Is Crawley really an upgrade from Sibley.. Bazball selection and team management appears to have gotten the max from guys like Duckett and Brook. But they appear to have tunnel vision regarding some players and seem to appoint the next player without much consideration of form or actual results (e.g. Overton, Bethel, Crawley)

 

[honestbharani]

A lot has been made of India not winning any of the 3 tests Bumrah played in but England lost both tests Harry Brook got a 100 in. Maybe that is why GG gave him the award.

 

[centurymaker]

GG gave Brook the award because he changed the whole momentum whenever he got his runs.

 

[centurymaker]

Bumrah is to blame for Indian batters failing to chase 192 at Lords.

 

[capt_Luffy]

A lot has been made of India not winning any of the 3 tests Bumrah played in but England lost both tests Harry Brook got a 100 in. Maybe that is why GG gave him the award.

Should have scored 1 more in the first damn.....

 

[Chin Music]

The thing is Crawley especially has had way too many chances. Can't really say he's miles better than the rest when they haven't tried anyone else in a long time. Is Crawley really an upgrade from Sibley.. Bazball selection and team management appears to have gotten the max from guys like Duckett and Brook. But they appear to have tunnel vision regarding some players and seem to appoint the next player without much consideration of form or actual results (e.g. Overton, Bethel, Crawley)

Like probably nearly every other England fan, I've prevaricated over Crawley. I really would love an alternative to be out there who would be a significant upgrade on him, but I am of the realisation that this option simply doesn't exist at this time. They have hopes for McKinney and they are obviously watching him develop, but they probably feel he isn't there at the moment.

Re Sibley, I'm sure he would probably still average high 20s low 30s if he got back into the team, yet would do so at a very slow strike rate. For the few times that Crawley gets his 50s, he'll do so at a high strike rate and will have battered off the new ball. Sibley will occupy the crease for plenty of time, but the score will go nowhere and when gets out, bang bang and the bowlers are on top again. That's why they've likely stuck with Crawley.

 

[Molehill]

Pope averages 40+ under McCullum. He's got a ton of flaws but he's MILES ahead of 2019-2022 Crawley/malan/Bairstow. Crawley is functional at best, but in his current state he's miles better than whoever else England tried in that period bar cook.

It's not great, but Crawley averages 35.5 (31.5 overall) when he opens with Duckett who is at 47.0 (42.9 overall) in reverse. They just seem to compliment each other quite well and have been a decent pairing.

Pope is under far more threat than Crawley.

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayer]

Bumrah is to blame for Indian batters failing to chase 192 at Lords.

I mean, did you see the shot he got out to?

 

[Son Of Coco]

On the other hand, there was a ball.

Yeah, and England getting the best of the conditions a majority of the time...and they still only managed to draw.

 

[govinda indian fan]

Yeah, and England getting the best of the conditions a majority of the time...and they still only managed to draw.

Don't forget luck they had with tosses

 

[zaremba]

They had the same all time great bowlers and mostly the same batting personnel beforehand and pretty much sucked.

I hate Bazball and I think it actively hurts them when it applies to selection or declarations, but I do think it helped mentally free up some confused and trapped batsmen and gave them success they wouldn't have had without it, especially early on.

They went from a good bowling side and a very crap batting side to a good bowling side and a decent batting side. Now their bowling is much worse so their batting isn't holding things up so much, but it's hard to deny it improved their batting.

I agree with you that it has clearly improved the batting. What I don't understand is why you say you hate it - surely improving the batting is the key metric for assessing it? (To say nothing of the entertainment factor which I'd say is undeniable).