Prince EWS
Global Moderator
There probably aren't two people on the forum who rate Ashwin's bowling further apart than us two if you ignore the subz and Shri.
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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread
- Thread starter Red
- Start date
Coronis
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Fun specialist XI.
Sutcliffe
Hayden
Headley
May
Lara
Nourse
Bari+
McGrath
Walsh
Bumrah
Gibbs
Probably a way to make the fielding worse but cbf right now.
Criteria was as ATG as you can get following these guidelines
Bowlers average below 10
Keeper below 20
Batsmen have never taken a wicket in test cricket
Greenidge can obviously replace Hayden if you prefer. Others I also considered - Kohli, Amla, Kanhai, Inzamam. Flower and Sanga are disqualified for obvious reasons. Keeper could also be Taylor, Grout or Tallon. If you like clouds Anderson is an option. Bedi and Chandra too. Didn’t consider Barnes because 8.06 pre war is a bit better
Sutcliffe
Hayden
Headley
May
Lara
Nourse
Bari+
McGrath
Walsh
Bumrah
Gibbs
Probably a way to make the fielding worse but cbf right now.
Criteria was as ATG as you can get following these guidelines
Bowlers average below 10
Keeper below 20
Batsmen have never taken a wicket in test cricket
Greenidge can obviously replace Hayden if you prefer. Others I also considered - Kohli, Amla, Kanhai, Inzamam. Flower and Sanga are disqualified for obvious reasons. Keeper could also be Taylor, Grout or Tallon. If you like clouds Anderson is an option. Bedi and Chandra too. Didn’t consider Barnes because 8.06 pre war is a bit better
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
Hobbs took literally one...
Think he can squeeze in there of you raised the bar to multiple or even 10 wickets?
Personally would replace Lara with Amla.
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
Really fun article I found, can't recall if I've shared it before, apologies if I have.
www.smh.com.au
Wisden's selection of a best XI stands the test of all eras
No Lillee, Lindwall or Lara? No Gilchrist or Miller? No Greg Chappell or Barry Richards? Twice as many Englishmen as Australians? No Murali? No problem. Wisden's selection of an all-time World XI, the type of exercise that gets men in Hush Puppies and cardigans wrestling on the floor, is a good one.
Coronis
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yes he took one, which means he can be a potential asset as a bowler.
I mean if you think Amla is a better batsman than Lara, sure.
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
No, was looking at it from another perspective
JBMAC
State Captain
Engineer:
Some sceptics on here have questioned my support for him. Follows is an article worth reading
You have more talent than me," Geoff Boycott once told me. "But because of my temperament, I’ve scored more runs."
I looked at him and replied, "But Geoff, who do people come to watch?"
That was Farokh Engineer for you.
Yesterday, I watched Rishabh Pant fearlessly sweep Jofra Archer in a Test match, with Farokh Engineer himself watching from the stands. It felt like a new age actor flipping a cigarette into his mouth in classic Rajinikanth style with the superstar himself in the audience. That was the kind of legacy Farokh carried, he original, the benchmark, the daredevil prototype.
Farokh Engineer wasn’t just India’s first flamboyant wicketkeeper-batsman he was arguably the world’s first. Long before limited overs cricket made audacity fashionable, he was smashing boundaries, making quick runs, and doing it all with unmatched flair. In one legendary innings in Chennai, he hammered 94 runs against the West Indies - all before lunch. In an era of caution and conservatism, Farokh was a revolution.
He wasn’t just admired for his cricket. With his dashing good looks and magnetic charm, Farokh was a darling of the crowd. The face of Brylcreem, he was a poster boy for them. Farokh Engineer was a brand before the word brand existed.
In Lancashire, he became a legend. Stadiums filled when he played. People came for the spectacle, and Farokh never disappointed. Once in Manchester, a police officer pulled him over for speeding. But upon recognizing him, the officer grinned and said, “If I book you, my father will kill me.” That was Farokh’s fame in England. He wasn’t just a cricketer; he was a star.
And yet, despite all this, Farokh Engineer remains one of the most underappreciated heroes in Indian cricket. Maybe people forgot him it seems.
Some sceptics on here have questioned my support for him. Follows is an article worth reading
You have more talent than me," Geoff Boycott once told me. "But because of my temperament, I’ve scored more runs."
I looked at him and replied, "But Geoff, who do people come to watch?"
That was Farokh Engineer for you.
Yesterday, I watched Rishabh Pant fearlessly sweep Jofra Archer in a Test match, with Farokh Engineer himself watching from the stands. It felt like a new age actor flipping a cigarette into his mouth in classic Rajinikanth style with the superstar himself in the audience. That was the kind of legacy Farokh carried, he original, the benchmark, the daredevil prototype.
Farokh Engineer wasn’t just India’s first flamboyant wicketkeeper-batsman he was arguably the world’s first. Long before limited overs cricket made audacity fashionable, he was smashing boundaries, making quick runs, and doing it all with unmatched flair. In one legendary innings in Chennai, he hammered 94 runs against the West Indies - all before lunch. In an era of caution and conservatism, Farokh was a revolution.
He wasn’t just admired for his cricket. With his dashing good looks and magnetic charm, Farokh was a darling of the crowd. The face of Brylcreem, he was a poster boy for them. Farokh Engineer was a brand before the word brand existed.
In Lancashire, he became a legend. Stadiums filled when he played. People came for the spectacle, and Farokh never disappointed. Once in Manchester, a police officer pulled him over for speeding. But upon recognizing him, the officer grinned and said, “If I book you, my father will kill me.” That was Farokh’s fame in England. He wasn’t just a cricketer; he was a star.
And yet, despite all this, Farokh Engineer remains one of the most underappreciated heroes in Indian cricket. Maybe people forgot him it seems.
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
So now that our AT XI is finished and official. How does it compare to the credible ones out there?
Wisden
Hobbs | Grace | Bradman | Tendulkar | Richards | Sobers | Knott | Wasim | Marshall | Warne | Barnes
CRICINFO
Hobbs | Hutton | Bradman | Tendulkar | Richards | Sobers | Gilchrist | Marshall | Warne | Wasim | Lillee
Martin Crowe
Hobbs | Gavaskar | Bradman | Tendulkar | Richards | Sobers | Gilchrist | Wasim | Marshall | Warne | Lillee
Bob Willis
Hobbs | Richards | Bradman | Richards | Kallis | Sangakkara | Sobers | Imran | Warne | Marshall | McGrath
Geoffrey Boycott
Hobbs | Sutcliffe | Bradman | Headley | Tendulkar | Sobers | Knott | Marshall Warne | Lillee | Barnes
Christopher Martin Jenkins
Grace | Hobbs | Bradman | Richards | Hammond | Sobers | Gilchrist | Marshall | Warne | Barnes | McGrath
Geoff Armstrong
Grace | Hobbs | Bradman | Tendulkar | Pollock | Sobers | Gilchrist | Imran | Marshall | Warne | Barnes
Fazeer Mohammed
Hobbs | Gavaskar | Bradman | Headley | Richards | Sobers | Gilchrist | Hadlee | Wasim | Marshall | Muralitharan
Jerrod Kimber *
Hobbs | Hutton | Bradman | Tendulkar | Lara | Sobers | Gilchrist | Imran | Marshall | Warne | McGrath
Cricket Web
Hobbs | Hutton | Bradman | Tendulkar | Richards | Sobers | Gilchrist | Hadlee | Marshall | Warne | McGrath
There are a couple that I've found that I wouldn't include in the overall tally, primarily because of the early dates when selected, but are still instructive to read.
E.W. Swanton (1991)
Hobbs • Gavaskar • Bradman • Sobers • Headley • Miller • Davidson • Evans • Marshall • O'Reilly • Gibbs
Brian Johnson (1984)
Hutton • Richards • Richards • Bradman • Hammond • Compton • Sobers • Benaud / Laker • Evans • Lindwall • Lillee
Two other XI's that I wouldn't include in this tally, and are absolutely as polar opposite as possible. Currently our most revered, referenced and sought out poster @peterhrt and the GROK AI with which I've had some good "discussions" , but realistically is an amalgamation of the internet, but some detailed rationalizations.
Peterhrt
Hobbs | Richards | Bradman | Tendulkar | Richards | Sobers | Gilchrist | Hadlee | Marshall | Barnes | O'Reilly
GROK
Hobbs | Hutton | Bradman | Tendulkar | Richards | Sobers | Gilchrist| Wasim | Marshall | Warne | McGrath
Also found a couple other XI's in my notes, but couldn't find any verification or in the instance of one of rhem anything at all, on the interwebs. Would also love to find Mark Nicholas's or Gideon Haigh's efforts.
But of the 10 a compilation XI would look like.
Sir John Hobbs
Sir Leonard Hutton
Sir Donald Bradman ©
Sachin Tendulkar
Sir I.V.A. Richards ^
Sir Garfield Sobers ^⁵
Adam Gilchrist +
Wasim Akram ³
Malcolm Marshall ¹
Shane Warne ^⁴
Glenn McGrath ²
There was a two way tie for the opener between Hutton and Grace for the 2nd opening spot and, and a three way tie with Akram, McGrath and Barnes for the two bowling spots. My XI acting as the tie breaker.
Looking for good additional teams.
Wisden
Hobbs | Grace | Bradman | Tendulkar | Richards | Sobers | Knott | Wasim | Marshall | Warne | Barnes
CRICINFO
Hobbs | Hutton | Bradman | Tendulkar | Richards | Sobers | Gilchrist | Marshall | Warne | Wasim | Lillee
Martin Crowe
Hobbs | Gavaskar | Bradman | Tendulkar | Richards | Sobers | Gilchrist | Wasim | Marshall | Warne | Lillee
Bob Willis
Hobbs | Richards | Bradman | Richards | Kallis | Sangakkara | Sobers | Imran | Warne | Marshall | McGrath
Geoffrey Boycott
Hobbs | Sutcliffe | Bradman | Headley | Tendulkar | Sobers | Knott | Marshall Warne | Lillee | Barnes
Christopher Martin Jenkins
Grace | Hobbs | Bradman | Richards | Hammond | Sobers | Gilchrist | Marshall | Warne | Barnes | McGrath
Geoff Armstrong
Grace | Hobbs | Bradman | Tendulkar | Pollock | Sobers | Gilchrist | Imran | Marshall | Warne | Barnes
Fazeer Mohammed
Hobbs | Gavaskar | Bradman | Headley | Richards | Sobers | Gilchrist | Hadlee | Wasim | Marshall | Muralitharan
Jerrod Kimber *
Hobbs | Hutton | Bradman | Tendulkar | Lara | Sobers | Gilchrist | Imran | Marshall | Warne | McGrath
Cricket Web
Hobbs | Hutton | Bradman | Tendulkar | Richards | Sobers | Gilchrist | Hadlee | Marshall | Warne | McGrath
There are a couple that I've found that I wouldn't include in the overall tally, primarily because of the early dates when selected, but are still instructive to read.
E.W. Swanton (1991)
Hobbs • Gavaskar • Bradman • Sobers • Headley • Miller • Davidson • Evans • Marshall • O'Reilly • Gibbs
Brian Johnson (1984)
Hutton • Richards • Richards • Bradman • Hammond • Compton • Sobers • Benaud / Laker • Evans • Lindwall • Lillee
Two other XI's that I wouldn't include in this tally, and are absolutely as polar opposite as possible. Currently our most revered, referenced and sought out poster @peterhrt and the GROK AI with which I've had some good "discussions" , but realistically is an amalgamation of the internet, but some detailed rationalizations.
Peterhrt
Hobbs | Richards | Bradman | Tendulkar | Richards | Sobers | Gilchrist | Hadlee | Marshall | Barnes | O'Reilly
GROK
Hobbs | Hutton | Bradman | Tendulkar | Richards | Sobers | Gilchrist| Wasim | Marshall | Warne | McGrath
Also found a couple other XI's in my notes, but couldn't find any verification or in the instance of one of rhem anything at all, on the interwebs. Would also love to find Mark Nicholas's or Gideon Haigh's efforts.
But of the 10 a compilation XI would look like.
Sir John Hobbs
Sir Leonard Hutton
Sir Donald Bradman ©
Sachin Tendulkar
Sir I.V.A. Richards ^
Sir Garfield Sobers ^⁵
Adam Gilchrist +
Wasim Akram ³
Malcolm Marshall ¹
Shane Warne ^⁴
Glenn McGrath ²
There was a two way tie for the opener between Hutton and Grace for the 2nd opening spot and, and a three way tie with Akram, McGrath and Barnes for the two bowling spots. My XI acting as the tie breaker.
Looking for good additional teams.
Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
Top 5 Australian ODI XIs
Been watching some old ODI matches on YouTube and this might be fun.
Watson
Gilchrist
Ponting
Jones
M Waugh
Symonds
M Hussey
Warne
Starc
Lee
McGrath
Hayden
Warner
Smith
G Chappell
Maxwell
M Marsh
Haddin
Hogg
Cummins
Lillee
Bracken
Finch
Head
I Chappell
Border
Bevan
S Waugh
Wade
O’Donnell
Johnson
McDermott
Zampa
Hazelwood
G Marsh
Boon
Martyn
D Hussey
Lehmann
Faulkner
Healy
Gillespie
Reiffel
Fleming
P Taylor
Katich
Khawaja
S Marsh
Bailey
White
Carey
Harvey
Doherty
R Hogg
McKay
Reid
Been watching some old ODI matches on YouTube and this might be fun.
Watson
Gilchrist
Ponting
Jones
M Waugh
Symonds
M Hussey
Warne
Starc
Lee
McGrath
Hayden
Warner
Smith
G Chappell
Maxwell
M Marsh
Haddin
Hogg
Cummins
Lillee
Bracken
Finch
Head
I Chappell
Border
Bevan
S Waugh
Wade
O’Donnell
Johnson
McDermott
Zampa
Hazelwood
G Marsh
Boon
Martyn
D Hussey
Lehmann
Faulkner
Healy
Gillespie
Reiffel
Fleming
P Taylor
Katich
Khawaja
S Marsh
Bailey
White
Carey
Harvey
Doherty
R Hogg
McKay
Reid
Fuller Pilch
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
I’ve posted elsewhere a long time ago why I think Bevan is a bit of a myth. He’d not make my Aus first XI ever but I’d consider him for the second XI happily.
Hard disagree that Bevan > Ponting or Jones though.
Fuller Pilch
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
I’m fine with you rating Bevan over Ponting based on that if that’s your criteria
TheJediBrah
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Bevan was a different type of player to Ponting. Better ODI batsman all things considered. There are more players throughout history that can do what Ponting did than can do what Bevan did (if there are any).
Could be argued that as a player Ponting has the edge though with how huge the impact of his fielding was in ODIs. Probably worth another 10 runs on his batting average from baseline
Could be argued that as a player Ponting has the edge though with how huge the impact of his fielding was in ODIs. Probably worth another 10 runs on his batting average from baseline
capt_Luffy
Hall of Fame Member
Surely Dhoni counts?
Calm_profit
International 12th Man
Fuller Pilch
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Also, is the absence of Michael Clarke from all 5 teams (!!!) an accidental oversight, or a deliberate omission?