All-Time World XIs: Discussion Thread

[Thala_0710]

Bro Sanga kept Murali for around 2000 overs in International Cricket. That's a huge advantage here. Walcott has a similar drop off in average while keeping.

Yeah but he batted at 5 though

 

[Johan]

I don't think it's possible for Barnes to be more than strickly medium.

120s like Botham and Woakes I think

 

[Thala_0710]

And by most accounts, he sounds the slightly better pure keeper

 

[capt_Luffy]

How often did keepers stand up to Barnes?

They somehow did, but here's the thing, Knott isn't doing that. Knott's biggest criticism was him standing back to medium pacers.

 

[capt_Luffy]

And by most accounts, he sounds the slightly better pure keeper

We saw Sanga keep Murali and think both agree that at worst it was very solid.

 

[subshakerz]

I'm leaning towards Walcott here. Both Sanga and Walcott saw a significant drop in their batting averages when keeping compared to their overall numbers. But Walcott batted in the middle order, so he fits this playing XI better. Sanga’s record outside of no. 3 isn’t convincing. Honestly, I’d only pick him as a specialist top-order batter in another XI — that’s where he’s proven and at his best.

Yeah I am considering Walcott if Miller wins. Sanga though I am open to.

 

[Thala_0710]

We saw Sanga keep Murali and think both agree that at worst it was very solid.

It was very solid, but Murali isn't the only bowler in the line up though. He was definitely worse vs pace than spin imo

 

[capt_Luffy]

It was very solid, but Murali isn't the only bowler in the line up though. He was definitely worse vs pace than spin imo

Slightly yeah, but I don't think he was poor to pace. Not good like to spin, but solid. And Walcott kept much to pacers hardly as well. And Murali is definitely the most challenging bowler to keep here by far if the keep isn't standing up to the stumps to Barnes, and Knott isn't doing specifically that.

 

[Johan]

I don't think it's possible for Barnes to be more than strickly medium.

though this is a historical problem, in their time the likes of Larwood–Lindwall–Trueman were described as fast bowlers, Barnes–Bedser–Tate were described as medium bowlers and Verity–Grum–Laker as slow bowlers, eventually it somehow just became medium fast or fast medium or whatever. For example, in 80s context, Imran was fast, Botham was medium, Qadir was slow.

 

[Bolo.]

They somehow did, but here's the thing, Knott isn't doing that. Knott's biggest criticism was him standing back to medium pacers.

At Barnes' pace would edges even carry to the slips or the keepers standing back? It's why I refused to pick him tbh. We don't know enough about his bowling for an ATG XI exercise. It's pie-in-the-sky stuff.

Agree that he's an iffy pick. Bowling style and era aside, he doesn't really have a test career against quality opponents. And if we are looking at what he did outside of tests, Grace should already be in (and arguably some others).

I thought I'd seen a photo of the cordon standing back to Barnes. Might be confused though. Figured that was him bowling a bit faster focussing on swing, and the keeper would maybe come up for when he was trying to spin it more.

Anyway, if we are expecting the keeper to stand up to him, I think I have to pick Knott.

people like Barnes, Bedser and Tate weren't actually spinners. They relied on swing, cut, had a run up (albeit short) and the extra bounce/pace off the wicket due to their hands and heights, not on drift or spin. All three men are every bit of as much of pacers as an Ian Botham or Chris Woakes.

Cut is just fast wrist spin

 

[Johan]

Agree that he's an iffy pick. Bowling style and era aside, he doesn't really have a test career against quality opponents. And if we are looking at what he did outside of tests, Grace should already be in (and arguably some others).

Australia was fairly high quality, especially in Australia where the wickets were generally flat unless it rained, which isn't that common an occurrence in Australia, and he got 6 wickets a game averaging 22.

I thought I'd seen a photo of the cordon standing back to Barnes. Might be confused though. Figured that was him bowling a bit faster focussing on swing, and the keeper would maybe come up for when he was trying to spin it more.

Anyway, if we are expecting the keeper to stand up to him, I think I have to pick Knott.

Knott didn't stand up to Medium pacers.

anyway I reckon it's a batsman to batsman thing, even with Bedser you can see that bowlers stand back at times and stand up at times, we saw last week how even mediocre keepers can easily keep to 125-130kmph as long as the bounce is consistent so I reckon specialist keepers would be able to handle Barnes.

Cut is just fast wrist spin

Keyword – Fast wrist spin.

 

[subshakerz]

Agree that he's an iffy pick. Bowling style and era aside, he doesn't really have a test career against quality opponents. And if we are looking at what he did outside of tests, Grace should already be in (and arguably some others).

I thought I'd seen a photo of the cordon standing back to Barnes. Might be confused though. Figured that was him bowling a bit faster focussing on swing, and the keeper would maybe come up for when he was trying to spin it more.

Anyway, if we are expecting the keeper to stand up to him, I think I have to pick Knott.

Cut is just fast wrist spin

Who were your votes for pacers then?

 

[Johan]

Who were your votes for pacers then?

Imran and Miller I think

 

[capt_Luffy]

Agree that he's an iffy pick. Bowling style and era aside, he doesn't really have a test career against quality opponents. And if we are looking at what he did outside of tests, Grace should already be in (and arguably some others).

I thought I'd seen a photo of the cordon standing back to Barnes. Might be confused though. Figured that was him bowling a bit faster focussing on swing, and the keeper would maybe come up for when he was trying to spin it more.

Anyway, if we are expecting the keeper to stand up to him, I think I have to pick Knott.

Cut is just fast wrist spin

Well, Barnes' record against Australia is exceptional as well. In the Aussie matches he played in the average score was lower than games of someone like Bumrah actually, and he is a bigger improvement on bowling average of his teammates than Bumrah. Then you consider he legit took 49 wickets in 4 Tests in SA and has a 7 WPM, and yeah.

Grace should be in by now, yes.

And here's the thing I was talking about though, Knott can't stand up to him. If you really wish someone to stand up to the stumps to Barnes you have to take someone like Evans or Tallon, since the main criticism of Knott was his lack of willingness to stand up the wickets to medium pacers.

 

[subshakerz]

Imran and Miller I think

I was asking pacers before this vote. He hasn't voted yet

 

[sayon basak]

I'd reckon if Kallis wins, Knott is still the obvious choice for now. For the third team (or if Miller wins), I'd be tempted to go Walcott. But Ames is quite high for me too.

Come on dude. Sanga over Ames at least.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Come on dude. Sanga over Ames at least.

Kept for more matches and averaged more while keeping.

 

[Thala_0710]

Come on dude. Sanga over Ames at least.

Nahh, I want the proper great full time keeper (or close to that level, and can'l bat as well...) For the 4th team, I can go Sanga no issues

 

[sayon basak]

Kept for more matches and averaged more while keeping.

Yeah. Don't get the Ames glaze at all.

 

[sayon basak]

Nahh, I want the proper great keeper (or close to that level, and can'l bat as well...) For the 4th team, I can go Sanga no issues

Ames wasn't a "great keeper".