Harry brook era

[RossTaylorsBox]

Lol that ChatGPT is trained on insults from Reddit.

 

[Burgey]

so if Root scores in Australia well, a century and good amount of runs, will you write an apology post for years of slander?

Not unless he really dominates the series, and even then I won't apologize because he's been woeful for over a decade here in any event. By your reasoning (such as it is), Ponting making a ton on his next to last tour of India means all is forgiven re his record there. It obviously isn't.

 

[govinda indian fan]

You lads were saying.....
View attachment 48550

Sorry. My jinx works joe back into form

 

[Johan]

Hey look fellas, this ****'s got chat gpt.

Still has no idea about cricket though.

Root has failed to make a hundred in three tours to the most important and consistently the most successful rival nation he plays against. He has never won a test here.

He captained his side to all but a white wash loss when he was here last, and he still has the same technical deficiencies which have stopped him from making a big score on these shores. Namely, he opens his face with an angled bat to score behind point against quick bowlers, and the extra pace and bounce here means he nicks off consistently. He was still playing those shots this innings. He will play hem again in the upcoming Ashes, and he will be a non-factor.

So don't compare that woeful record to blokes like Richards and Border who carved up across pretty much all conditions. Border averaged 55 away from home ffs across a 16 year career. There is no comparison between them.

Kind of an illogical standard to have.

He has failed a hundred but would he really be a much better batsman if he made 12 measly more runs at Brisbane and Australia won 32/1 instead of 20/1, because not for me, too arbitrary a standard and too random an argument.

He has been batting against one of the strongest bowling units ever with absolutely zero support from his lineup, if you look at it, and naturally he struggles and his average is at 35~ in Australia, not great but not as awful as what Ponting averaged in India, Ponting averaged 26 in India, playing against an attack exponentially inferior to what Root has to play in Australia, with all the support in the world from The Waughs, Hayden or whomever scored in India for Australia, and it was largely due to the same technical flaws he took to the end of his career IE playing spin too low, when it got more lift and turned faster he constantly edged it.

Unlike Root in Australia, who has been still England's highest scorer in 2017 and 2021 even if mediocre by his standard, Ponting can directly be blamed for the Australian loss in India in 2001, he got three ducks in five innings and had he made even 20 or 30 runs in India in the final test, Australia would've won that series very likely, had he and Warne performed at even 50% of their normal level in India in 1998 or 2001, Australia very likely wins the prior and definitely wins the latter. That is a far bigger issue than Root in Australia, whose average isn't even that bad and Australia would win all those series anyway.

A lot of the elites have issues in specific countries

Dravid? averages 29 in South Africa, averages 33 in Sri Lanka, averages like 25 in Australia bar one series when the main attack was missing.

Kallis? averages 35 in England, 27 without a road and 35 in Sri Lanka.

Sangakkara? averages 35 in South Africa, 36 in India, 41 in England and 34 in West Indies.

But Yeah Root averaging 35 in Australia against an ATG attack while having zero support is the only one with an issue, lol.

He'll definitely not play the same way he did in Australia in 2021-22, those shots work in England because the bounce is lower and the pace is lesser, of course he'd play those in England. I can't predict the future but your double standard on Ponting and Root is showing.

I'm one of the biggest Viv fans on this site, should be obvious I was sarcastic about Root>Viv.

 

[Burgey]

What are you dribbling about? I’ve posted in this thread saying Ponting’s record in India is bad.
Also a word to the wise - India’s bowling attack in India during the era Ponting played was incredibly effective.

Root will play the same shots here as he has previously because they’re embedded in him. That’s not his fault, it’s just a weakness brought about by the pitches where he’s grown up playing. Those sort of things in their various forms are in most players.

It could be fourth time is a charm for him here, but I haven’t seen anything which would make me think it will be. He’s traveled here in good nick previously and it hasn’t worked for him. Not sure why now will be different.

 

[Johan]

won't call it incredibly effective considering Sourav Ganguly was one of their opening pacemen and their second spinner was Venkatapathy Raju in 1998, and it was Harbhajan, Raju and Kulkarni supported by pacers like Zaheer and Prasad in 2001, but Yes, it was a decent enough home attack. Not comparable to current Australian one.

I'm saying other so called bonafide ATGs have just as big issues with their records.

 

[Burgey]

It wasn’t affective, but was certainly effective.

Attention to detail please.

 

[Johan]

That is not an argument smh

 

[Burgey]

I'm saying other so called bonafide ATGs have just as big issues with their records.

Well they aren’t all called atgs by me, and that’s the important thing tbh

 

[Johan]

Well they aren’t all called atgs by me, and that’s the important thing tbh

You don't think Ponting, Sangakkara, Kallis and Dravid were ATGs?

 

[Burgey]

Not all of them. These things are relative.

Kallis was a boring stats padder. Really never feared him with bat or ball against us, and we were, are and always will be the benchmark. “Ho hum, Jacques made a slow fifty. Whoop de do. We still rolled them for 250 etc etc”

Dravid is one of my favourites so I’m biased wrt him and respect him enormously. Terrific team player too - opened when the side needed him and gave no thought to his own stats. Unlike the bloke who usually batted one spot below him who was a selfish ****

Sanga dined out on massively flat home tracks. Stats flatter him imo. Atvg sees him out.

Ponting struggled in India and only average in England. Is the best of these players though. Batted in the prime spot in the line up, captained as well and made his runs fast.

All of these guys are a tier below Lara and Tendulkar from that era, yet they’re still all better players than Root. He inspires no fear in me. At all. Basically a thinner, pastier, less effective Kallis when it comes to playing Aus. Have watched Root for a long time and genuinely can’t recall any innings he’s played as being remotely out of the ordinary for wha you expect for a serviceable or better test player - they’re decent but certainty nothing out of the box.

As I said, he’s a trier. And that’s ok, good on him. But the idea he’s a great is laughable. You need better standards than “Joe Root ATG” if you’re going to lift your collective game and be considered a decent test nation for a change

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Only the goats like Tendulkar, Smith, and Border have flawless records

 

[Johan]

Not all of them. These things are relative.

Kallis was a boring stats padder. Really never feared him with bat or ball against us, and we were, are and always will be the benchmark. “Ho hum, Jacques made a slow fifty. Whoop de do. We still rolled them for 250 etc etc”

Dravid is one of my favourites so I’m biased wrt him and respect him enormously. Terrific team player too - opened when the side needed him and gave no thought to his own stats. Unlike the bloke who usually batted one spot below him who was a selfish ****

Sanga dined out on massively flat home tracks. Stats flatter him imo. Atvg sees him out.

Ponting struggled in India and only average in England. Is the best of these players though. Batted in the prime spot in the line up, captained as well and made his runs fast.

All of these guys are a tier below Lara and Tendulkar from that era, yet they’re still all better players than Root. He inspires no fear in me. At all. Basically a thinner, pastier, less effective Kallis when it comes to playing Aus. Have watched Root for a long time and genuinely can’t recall any innings he’s played as being remotely out of the ordinary for wha you expect for a serviceable or better test player - they’re decent but certainty nothing out of the box.

As I said, he’s a trier. And that’s ok, good on him. But the idea he’s a great is laughable. You need better standards than “Joe Root ATG” if you’re going to lift your collective game and be considered a decent test nation for a change

A weird anamoly in your beliefs then.

You ostracize Sangakkara for his home wickets, but Ponting averaged what? 48? on the same wickets, and Australia was also one of the flattest countries in the world from the 2001/02 Session all the way to the 2017/18 Post-Sandpaper Gate, Post the Dreaded MCG age, isn't that also applicable to him?

You call Tendulkar selfish, but why? because he batted at four instead of 3?

Root has an argument over all four of them, We can go through that one by one, I'm not saying he is certainly better mind you but it's always debatable if you look at their numbers objectively.

I'm sure he doesn't scare you, he hasn't done that well in Australia by his standard, though that's one flaws, all of those guys have multiple.

My Standards for ATG are functionally static throughout, I may be looser than you with it but the idea that you have to think a guy with over 13000 runs at a nearly 51 average isn't excellent to be "functional" is a silly idea, would probably be termed the GOAT if born in India.

 

[mackembhoy]

Same goes for comparing him with Ponting. Just embarrassing. Root has genuinely done nothing of significance out here in three tours other than **** himself as he arrives at customs. He's a dab cutting, effete walking wicket out here and nothing he's done has changed that.

Now compare them in India

 

[Burgey]

My Standards for ATG are functionally static throughout

They aren’t. I know they aren’t because no one’s are. These things are always subjective, even if it’s the standardised weighting you give to some or all of the inputs you rely on to rank players.

And even if they were consistent, why do you see that as some kind of strength? It’s like ranking music - it’s all in the eye of the beholder and it just isn’t important really. Cricket stats and ratings, like music, are background noise to the important things in life.

Don’t be hung up on being wha you think of as consistent or “functionally static”, as you call it. You’ll end up sounding like one of those weirdo libertarians who take pride in being “consistent” even when their ideas are nothing but consistently stupid (in their case that’s all the time).

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Kallis was a boring stats padder. Really never feared him with bat or ball against us, and we were, are and always will be the benchmark. “Ho hum, Jacques made a slow fifty. Whoop de do. We still rolled them for 250 etc etc”

Must not make a glib Border comparison must not make a glib Border comparison must not make a glib Border comparison

 

[Burgey]

Must not make a glib Border comparison must not make a glib Border comparison must not make a glib Border comparison

Border was many things but a stats padder he was not. Only time he made wanker runs in his career was the 200 on the 93 Ashes tour.

 

[Burgey]

Now compare them in India

Why?

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Border was many things but a stars padder he was not. Only time he made wanker runs in his career was the 200 on the 93 Ashes tour.

I was thinking more the "made a slow 50 but team still got rolled for 250" thing.

 

[Burgey]

I was thinking more the "made a slow 50 but team still got rolled for 250" thing.

Well that was the case until 1989 because he had a **** side. The SA side Kallis played in was never as **** as 80s Aus. Few teams were. 250 was often a good day