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Keith Miller vs Shane Warne

Better Cricketer

  • Total voters
    29
Johan

Johan

Hall of Fame Member
capt_Luffy said:
Ofcourse, Evans is better than Compton. Also, Kirmani is better than Laxman comfortably, and Tallon vs Harvey is a no contest.
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Wriddhiman Saha was clearly better than Virat Kohli and Ian Healy clearly superior to Steve Waugh. Ben Foakes also clearly a superior Cricketer to Joe Root.
 
R

reyrey

State Regular
kyear2 said:
In England he averaged 24 with the bat.

He's not close to a Harvey level bat, not remotely close.

And as a cricketer, yes I'm taking Imran ahead of him.
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The 24 average isn't as bad as you're trying to make out.

Harvey for example averaged 31 and Miller 24 in the 12 games in England they both played together.

Compared to the other Australian batsman he had 1 bad Test series and 2 average ones. He did about as well as you'd expect from a batsman with a Test average of 37.
 
kyear2

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
sayon basak said:
What he asked probably was "If a player were a Harvey level batsman and a Hazlewood level bowler, would you rate Imran over him?"
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There's a reason that player doesn't exist.

Why Imran's batting output jumped after he reduced his bowling. Why I believe Sobers (for all the all rounder acclaim), would have been an even higher rated bat and better cricketer had he bowled half the amount of overs batted more at 4 and spent more time at slip.
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
kyear2 said:
There's a reason that player doesn't exist.

Why Imran's batting output jumped after he reduced his bowling. Why I believe Sobers (for all the all rounder acclaim), would have been an even higher rated bat and better cricketer had he bowled half the amount of overs batted more at 4 and spent more time at slip.
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Miller is close to that player, and hence better than Warne
 
kyear2

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
Johan said:
I mean that's just wrong, there is a reason Compton and Bedser are rated in the pantheon of English greats and Godfrey Evans and Alan Knott are merely afterthoughts, the value of wicket keeping is there but in no sense is it comparable to the value of batsmanship or bowling.

Wicket Keepers are not the main show, they exist to maximize efficiency of bowlers by cutting down on byes and not dropping catches and chances by bowlers, they amplify bowlers, they do not and will not have impact anywhere near the same level as a great or batting performance.
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I mean you and Luffy are free to believe what ever you wish.

But Knott along with Compton make the top 50's of Crowe and Gower, while Bedser didn't feature in either.

I've seen WI keepers drop matches before behind the stumps. Stop pretending they're backstops and you just choose the one who's best with a bat.
 
kyear2

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
DrWolverine said:
Shane Warne was a bigger match winner imo

Keith Miller was the charismatic genius who often played second fiddle both in batting & bowling
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I think that some matches, Lindwall, Johnston and Johnson bowlers more overs than him. And most of the shots he got were with the new ball.

He seemed to be a great dude, but he wants the guy.
 
kyear2

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
Johan said:
Miller is better than Johnston but not Lindwall, but it doesn't matter, Miller is a legit 36+ averaging batsman combined with an ATG quality bowler, nobody was as good a bowler as him while being as good a batsman. He is literally Botham on steroids, 85 to 90% of Botham's peak but never had a decline
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That's the thing though. At test level I don't think he was a legit 36 batsman. And a gain we're not saying 45, even 40 plus, were saying for a top order batsman, hey her averaged 36.
 
Johan

Johan

Hall of Fame Member
kyear2 said:
I mean you and Luffy are free to believe what ever you wish.

But Knott along with Compton make the top 50's of Crowe and Gower, while Bedser didn't feature in either.

I've seen WI keepers drop matches before behind the stumps. Stop pretending they're backstops and you just choose the one who's best with a bat.
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Talking lists, Compton was 20 for Gower, Knott was 50, huge gap. Gower didn't seem to rate either Bedser or Evans, though Gower and Bedser were not at best of terms as Bedser kept dropping Gower and unequivocally favoured Gooch over him so that might play a factor.

Crowe's list was weird and all four of the gentlemen were featured.

1877-1900: WG Grace
1900-1930: Jack Hobbs, Herbert Sutcliffe, Victor Trumper, Sydney Barnes (4)
1930-1950: Don Bradman, Len Hutton, George Headley, Wally Hammond, Alec Bedser, Bill O'Reilly, Clarrie Grimmett (7)
1950-1970: Keith Miller, Denis Compton, Everton Weekes, Frank Worrell, Clyde Walcott, Garry Sobers, Graeme Pollock, Fred Trueman, Jim Laker, Godfrey Evans (10)
1970-1990: Viv Richards, Greg Chappell, Barry Richards, Sunil Gavaskar, Javed Miandad, Allan Border, Richard Hadlee, Imran Khan, Kapil Dev, Ian Botham, Alan Knott, Dennis Lillee, Michael Holding, Malcolm Marshall (14)
1990-2013: Sachin Tendulkar, Jacques Kallis, Brian Lara, Ricky Ponting, Rahul Dravid, Adam Gilchrist, Shane Warne, Muttiah Muralitharan, Anil Kumble, Glenn McGrath, Allan Donald, Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Curtly Ambrose (14)

Good thing you mention West Indies, give the current West Indies Bedser and they become the single most dominant and competent bowling unit around right after Australia, give current West Indies Compton and they win one of the three games in the ongoing Australia series, give them a Godfrey Evans and they take more catches but lose all the same, give them Knott and it's similar to Evans but marginal batting gain.

You can't seriously be convinced elite wicket keeping has the same match impact as elite batting or bowling.
 
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sayon basak

sayon basak

International Coach
kyear2 said:
I mean you and Luffy are free to believe what ever you wish.

But Knott along with Compton make the top 50's of Crowe and Gower, while Bedser didn't feature in either.

I've seen WI keepers drop matches before behind the stumps. Stop pretending they're backstops and you just choose the one who's best with a bat.
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Bedser did make it in some of the other rankings iirc, much higher than usual.
 
Johan

Johan

Hall of Fame Member
kyear2 said:
That's the thing though. At test level I don't think he was a legit 36 batsman. And a gain we're not saying 45, even 40 plus, were saying for a top order batsman, hey her averaged 36.
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name one better number 6 batsman in the world currently, if not, then clearly he's a world class number 6 batsman, hell he's better than a bunch of number fives right now
 
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kyear2

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
reyrey said:
The 24 average isn't as bad as you're trying to make out.

Harvey for example averaged 31 and Miller 24 in the 12 games in England they both played together.

Compared to the other Australian batsman he had 1 bad Test series and 2 average ones. He did about as well as you'd expect from a batsman with a Test average of 37.
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The key being test average of 37.
 
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