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5 greatest cricketers since Don’s retirement.

5 greatest cricketers since Don’s retirement


  • Total voters
    40

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
Yes it's wrong to give more credit to players who happen to be in stronger teams
It's wrong to give credit to players who made their teams stronger?

Seriously?

I swear this is just a cricket thing.

Brady is the GOAT because of wins, as was Montanna before him.

Pitchers gets credit for wins and losses based on their importance.

McGrath elevated that team to practically GOAT status and without him, they simply aren't.

Yes, one gets credit for that.
 

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
It's wrong to give credit to players who made their teams stronger?

Seriously?
How is that specific to McGrath? All ATG bowlers make their teams stronger.

You are strawmanning my critique.

You are giving credit to top bowlers of stronger teams more likely to be successful. It's obvious.
 

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
Within the context of this post, there are a suprising amount of votes for Miller. I rate him way higher than most. Behind only Bradman, the big 4ARs, and maybe Murali.

But is he ahead of even Pollock here on this timeframe? Pollock has nearly triple the amount of games, over triple the the amount of wickets, and clearly superior stats.
No personal offence, but I don't get this, at all.

The notion by some that all rounders are automatically better, just because they're all rounders, while not looking at their impact to games or to the sport is frustrating to me.

McGrath is a considerably better cricketer than Kallis and I would argue Miller. Just because he couldn't bat doesn't take away his impact with the ball. I think Hammond is arguably better than Kallis.

And I'll answer this in advance as I'm trying to have a productive work day today. How about Sobers?

He was the best bat of his era, more importantly a match winning batsman and retired as the 2nd best of all time. He wasn't a 5th bowler, he was often a 2nd or 3rd who delivered more opm than most specialists. He was also very arguably the greatest close catcher of all time, and a top 5 slip of all time, who took catches that most wouldn't even attempt.

one of the main reasons I appreciate American sports, specifically American football is that they have gleaned what's important isn't what's more visible. Offensive linemen are paid more than running backs, corners more than linebackers. It's not about the yards or tackles on the stat sheet.

Too many here are still stuck looking at the shiny yards the running backs get.
 

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
How is that specific to McGrath? All ATG bowlers make their teams stronger.

You are strawmanning my critique.

You are giving credit to top bowlers of stronger teams more likely to be successful. It's obvious.
Or giving credit to bowlers who elevated their teams to greatness.

And definitely.
 

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Or giving credit to bowlers who elevated their teams to greatness.

And definitely.
So you are basically admitting, bowlers from stronger teams will be rated higher.

This actually should work against McGrath. Unlike Wasim or Hadlee, McGrath had massive scoreboard pressure and the best slip cordon ever to assist him.
 

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
McGrath is a considerably better cricketer than Kallis and I would argue Miller.
He isn't. Realistically after Bradman, the top cricketers should all be top ARs (Sobers, Imran, Hadlee, Kallis, Miller). Nobody can overcome them on primary alone
 

Johan

Hall of Fame Member
Hammond is that tier, better bat than Kallis, GOAT slip, handy paceman recognised for his skill by everyone including the Don, good at Googlies and Leg Breaks
 
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kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
So you are basically admitting, bowlers from stronger teams will be rated higher.

This actually should work against McGrath. Unlike Wasim or Hadlee, McGrath had massive scoreboard pressure and the best slip cordon ever to assist him.
Hadlee had a pretty great cordon as well, but yes, understood.

But India had some impressive batting lineups, how much did it benefit their bowlers.

Still needs the guy, and his stood up more often than most.
 

Migara

International Coach
He isn't. Realistically after Bradman, the top cricketers should all be top ARs (Sobers, Imran, Hadlee, Kallis, Miller). Nobody can overcome them on primary alone
Add Gilchrist and Sangakkara. I don't think any one with primary skill alone will beath those two. They are in par with elite allrounders.
 

Migara

International Coach
Except Bradman, I do not see logic of any one being better than them with just primary alone.
Not even Bradman in the case of Sobers and Imran. Sobers batting bowling and fielding. Imran, batting , bowling, tactician and captaincy. Those two are ****ing rare talents in a single player.
 

Johan

Hall of Fame Member
Not even Bradman in the case of Sobers and Imran. Sobers batting bowling and fielding. Imran, batting , bowling, tactician and captaincy. Those two are ****ing rare talents in a single player.
Bradman blows them out of the water, Bradman himself wasn't a bad captain either to give Imran any relevant captaincy points.
 

Migara

International Coach
Bradman blows them out of the water, Bradman himself wasn't a bad captain either to give Imran any relevant captaincy points.
Their captaincy is like reciprocal of their batting averages. Imran ran the best side in cricket history to a draw at their home, and would have won if not for cheating. That is not a thing most of the captains can boast of. Even Ranatunga trouncing Aussies in 96 WC is a distant second.
 

Johan

Hall of Fame Member
Their captaincy is like reciprocal of their batting averages. Imran ran the best side in cricket history to a draw at their home, and would have won if not for cheating. That is not a thing most of the captains can boast of. Even Ranatunga trouncing Aussies in 96 WC is a distant second.
eh, a very much fading one, the team at Bourda were missing both their alpha batsman (Viv) and their alpha bowler, Philip Simmons was one of the openers but he was bad, Hooper and Logie we all know, Greenidge was very much fading by that time, only really left Haynes and Richardson combined with Walsh as the only experienced good bowler, Ambrose was debuting and was awful that series. Barbados was impressive but not really a tactical masterstroke by him.

also, Pakistan can't complain about bad umpiring lol.
 

Johan

Hall of Fame Member
This is always an absurdly dumb point whenever you bring it up. No one's asking for sympathy for pakistan. The actual point is that they would've snapped WI's unbeaten 15 year streak in half if not for bad umpiring, not that anyone feels sorry for pakistan.
Ah well

It is what it is, I'm sure many other teams were screwed out of great wins due to bad umpiring as well.
 

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