How should England go about developing spinners?

[LangleyburyCCPlayer]

Obviously we’ve seen Bashir have an extended go in the team despite, ahem, modest returns in the County Championship, and to be fair to him, he's done better in the Test arena and bowled very well against Zimbabwe, but picking kids based on attributes with little actual bowling behind them doesn't seem a sustainable strategy. The pitches in England especially at this time of year are obviously not spin-friendly, so few of the candidates for Bashir’s place are pulling up any trees, if they’re even bowling at all

 

[Blenkinsop]

Agreed. There seems to have been an idea that spinners arrive fully formed and it's just a question of looking hard enough for the right one. Whereas in fact there's a lot to be said for the idea that spin bowling as an art takes time to perfect.

 

[Ali TT]

No point leaving spinners at the mercy of counties to perfect their art. CC has routinely shown itself unable to develop international class spinners. Bashir might be an extreme version of picking regardless of domestic form but there are 17 other counties and, presumably, 17 other opportunities for English spinners to be given time to develop, yet...

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayer]

No point leaving spinners at the mercy of counties to perfect their art. CC has routinely shown itself unable to develop international class spinners. Bashir might be an extreme version of picking regardless of domestic form but there are 17 other counties and, presumably, 17 other opportunities for English spinners to be given time to develop, yet...

Not deducting points for producing wickets which are hardly like the industrially-fanned wickets Pakistan produced last year would be a start I guess!

 

[Ali TT]

Not deducting points for producing wickets which are hardly like the industrially-fanned wickets Pakistan produced last year would be a start I guess!

Maybe but I don't think that's preventing other counties from producing wickets that offer something for spinners. The prevailing incentives are to stack sides with right arm mediums.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Just poach some

 

[Johan]

Just poach some

We'd poach a decent spinner from New Zealand if we could- Heh, as if that will ever happen

 

[Fuller Pilch]

We'd poach a decent spinner from New Zealand if we could- Heh, as if that will ever happen

Australia got Clarrie Grimmett 1st...

 

[mackembhoy]

Disappointed that Notts dropped Farhan Ahmed from their side for last two matches.

 

[shortpitched713]

Send them to play FC cricket overseas.

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayer]

Send them to play FC cricket overseas.

Can overseas player even play in other countries' main domestic FC comps? I remember the England Lions played in the Duleep Trophy in the noughties, something along those lines would be good

 

[BoyBrumby]

Think the selectors have moved past the CC as a guide to the suitability of spinners (and cricketers generally, pretty much) for higher honours. I mean, why else is Zak Crawley a thing?

Bashir's FC record would be flattered by being called mildly two bob but one only has to see him in action to understand what attracted them to him.

His height (and attendant drop) and those long spinning fingers gives him a higher ceiling than the common or garden offie.

Making more pitches receptive to turn is the obvious first step. We've got Ciderabad and Wantage Road and that's about it. No coincidence Somerset and Northants both punch well above their weight in producing spinners.

 

[Chin Music]

Think the selectors have moved past the CC as a guide to the suitability of spinners (and cricketers generally, pretty much) for higher honours. I mean, why else is Zak Crawley a thing?

Bashir's FC record would be flattered by being called mildly two bob but one only has to see him in action to understand what attracted them to him.

His height (and attendant drop) and those long spinning fingers gives him a higher ceiling than the common or garden offie.

Making more pitches receptive to turn is the obvious first step. We've got Ciderabad and Wantage Road and that's about it. No coincidence Somerset and Northants both punch well above their weight in producing spinners.

I think the identification of Bashir, Hartley and Rehan was the clearest indication that it isn’t easy to use the CC as a guide for spinner selection as you say and the selectors look for attributes that they see as being those they can mould a bowler from. You can’t get certain spinners to produce revs if they don’t have the attributes.

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayer]

I think the identification of Bashir, Hartley and Rehan was the clearest indication that it isn’t easy to use the CC as a guide for spinner selection as you say and the selectors look for attributes that they see as being those they can mould a bowler from. You can’t get certain spinners to produce revs if they don’t have the attributes.

If you were to look at Rehan’s averages and where he’s coming in the batting order at county level, you’d think he was a batter who can turn his arm over! I know Leicestershire have had injuries to their top order, and he does strike me as an eager young lad who would put his hand up for anything (he’s batted up the order for England of course too), but I wonder if it’s also an attempt to prove his worth to the England selectors as a batter, his lack of overs of late and his release point is not going to get him into the side any time soon I don’t think

 

[Chin Music]

If you were to look at Rehan’s averages and where he’s coming in the batting order at county level, you’d think he was a batter who can turn his arm over! I know Leicestershire have had injuries to their top order, and he does strike me as an eager young lad who would put his hand up for anything (he’s batted up the order for England of course too), but I wonder if it’s also an attempt to prove his worth to the England selectors as a batter, his lack of overs of late and his release point is not going to get him into the side any time soon I don’t think

Is it a case of a bit too much, much to young with him? I guess while we get excited with leg spinners, that is the hardest bowling type to master. He doesn't have much of a leg-break although you can say similar for Rashid who has relied on his wrong'un to get the success that he has had in short form stuff. It would be interesting to see if Rehan can improve his batting enough although I suspect that is a tall order.

 

[Migara]

start the county season a month late and finish a month late. That will allow spin to be an integral part of every team.

 

[Chin Music]

start the county season a month late and finish a month late. That will allow spin to be an integral part of every team.

Sadly, that wouldn't work here with our climate. If we actually played more FC cricket in high summer, when it is largely warmer and drier that would help.

 

[chris.hinton]

start the county season a month late and finish a month late. That will allow spin to be an integral part of every team.

Not a chance this should happen. May to August would kill the countries

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayer]

Sadly, that wouldn't work here with our climate. If we actually played more FC cricket in high summer, when it is largely warmer and drier that would help.

But when would we play the crisp cup?

 

[Chin Music]

But when would we play the crisp cup?

I know, fella. I know!