Ben Stokes vs Shakib Al Hasan

[Zinzan]

Al Hasan is arguably the most over rated cricketer in the history of the game. He is bog average at best. He's the leading player from a country which has barely produced a 2nd XI standard player other than himself. He stands out because he's the cricketing equivalent of a midfield city runner in what is otherwise a midweek at Kembla Grange field made up of his compatriots. He's barely worth a squirt of piss.

Don't hold back Burg-man, tell us what you really think lol.

 

[BazBall21]

I do think Jadeja is a level above them all. Quite a few in this forum under-rate him a lot but he proves time and again how valuable he is.

On batting,
Stokes>Jadeja=Shakib>Holder

The difference in batting between Stokes and Jadeja is not as much as many here think. Yes, Stokes gets scintillating centuries but Jadeja is much more consistent than Stokes. There are very few innings that Jadeja fails to score above 30.

On bowling,
Jadeja>Shakib>Holder>>Stokes

I think the gap between their bowling is bigger, but Stokes is six runs ahead of Jadeja on runs-per-innings and has ten more centuries. Don't think there's much comparison with the bat. Jadeja with the bat has missed out on a lot of tough batting conditions tests over the past five years or so and is inflated by not outs. Six tests in SA (2018+2021/22), four tests in England (2018) and four tests at home to England (2021).
Think his batting average flatters him. Also think Holder is a more condition-dependent bowler than Stokes so I definitely wouldn't have added an extra >.

 

[GIMH]

Wait @Burgey do you have Flintoff ahead of Stokes, as I note Stokes wasn't in your list

 

[Burgey]

Wait @Burgey do you have Flintoff ahead of Stokes, as I note Stokes wasn't in your list

Tbf I threw the list together on my laptop while hearing a case (they settled).

Stokes so far ahead it’s probably unnecessary to even include him tbh.

Honestly, people suggesting only two of my list are better than that arse clown. Fmd this joint is rubbish sometimes.

Make me a mod so I can ban these ****wits. TIL today - apparently Al Hasan is a better cricketer than, say Geoff Boycott or Graham Gooch. Get in the bin with this crap ffs.

 

[Chin Music]

Hard to know how to rate Shakib given there is a serious confidence gap in his performances against the better sides. Few games against Australia, England and South Africa and he hadn't fared well against them with the bat. His bowling also has a bit of a confidence gap given he was able to fill his boots against West Indies 3rd XI in his early days as well (14 of his 22 wickets in WI) as the snake pits he plays on at home.

 

[BazBall21]

I think Stokes is a clear tier ahead with the bat. He has a better century-innings ratio despite having to play the big boys a lot more.

Percentage of innings against Australia, South Africa, India, England, post-2013 New Zealand...

Shakib 40%
Stokes 69%

Shakib has been playing for an incredibly long time but longevity is crazy hard for pace bowling all
rounders. Chris Cairns missed 55 tests. Flintoff and Botham both broke down early. Imran had to focus more on batting towards the end after a stress fracture etc. Thus I think pace bowling workload is likely to affect batting more than spin bowling workload because of the larger physical stress. However, Shakib has had to plough his trade in a very feeble outfit. That's an argument in his favour.

 

[BazBall21]

Hard to know how to rate Shakib given there is a serious confidence gap in his performances against the better sides. Few games against Australia, England and South Africa and he hadn't fared well against them with the bat. His bowling also has a bit of a confidence gap given he was able to fill his boots against West Indies 3rd XI in his early days as well (14 of his 22 wickets in WI) as the snake pits he plays on at home.

Some padding against Zimbabwe too. Stokes has never got to play them.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I think Stokes is a clear tier ahead with the bat. He has a better century-innings ratio despite having to play the big boys a lot more.

Had 2 ATG bats ahead of him in the order in Cook and Root. It is much easier to score big runs when the guy at the other end can hold a bat.

 

[BazBall21]

Had 2 ATG bats ahead of him in the order in Cook and Root. It is much easier to score big runs when the guy at the other end can hold a bat.

Suggesting Stokes has had a prosperous batting lineup throughout his career is disingenuous. Not to mention Cook was far from ATG material when their careers overlapped. Cook averaged 41 (and 37 overseas) during that time. Stokes and Root's batting peaks came at different times too.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

CW allrounder ranking results (Feb - April 2022)
Top 12. (Google "Cricketweb top allrounders")

Sobers
Imran
Kallis
Miller
Botham
Shakib
Kapil
Faulkner
Hadlee
Pollock
Jadeja
Stokes

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Suggesting Stokes has had a prosperous batting lineup throughout his career is disingenuous. Not to mention Cook was far from ATG material when their careers overlapped. Cook averaged 41 during that time. Stokes and Root's batting peaks came at different times too.

Not throughout his career, but Cook was much better than Tamim and Root than Monimul. Admittedly Mushfiqur is very very good.

 

[Chin Music]

Suggesting Stokes has had a prosperous batting lineup throughout his career is disingenuous. Not to mention Cook was far from ATG material when their careers overlapped. Cook averaged 41 during that time. Stokes and Root's batting peaks came at different times too.

Yep, after Harris (in the home series) and then him and Johnson marmalised him in Australia later on that year, Cook ceased to be great. Stokes of course made his debut in that tour from hell and still got a ton and a five fer.

 

[BazBall21]

Not throughout his career, but Cook was much better than Tamim and Root than Monimul. Admittedly Mushfiqur is very very good.

I give Shakib some points for being the no1 pillar in a very weak side. Stokes though had to front up against the big teams regularly in a generally struggling batting lineup. In the second half of Shakib's career, the batting support improved. Better than WI's batting at least.

 

[BazBall21]

Yep, after Harris (in the home series) and then him and Johnson marmalised him in Australia later on that year, Cook ceased to be great. Stokes of course made his debut in that tour from hell and still got a ton and a five fer.

His top three knocks all came against Australia. Newlands 258 is forth. Not sure about fifth.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Shakib's double hundred at the Basin Reserve was as good as Sanga's. Both are a bit forgotten though as they ended in defeat.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Shakib might be at 150 tests by now if he was English

 

[Chin Music]

Shakib might be at 150 tests by now if he was English

A fair point. I don't have much truck with the leading sides refusing to barely play Bangladesh at all. That England haven't hosted Bangladesh since 2010 is a disgrace in my view.

 

[Burgey]

I think it may be even longer since they’ve been to Aus

 

[Chin Music]

I think it may be even longer since they’ve been to Aus

I recall the series being called 'The top end tour', where they played in Darwin & Cairns. Edit:2003

 

[Burgey]

Yeah I think it was maybe the mid-2000s or so? Wouldn’t mind some more of those series, but the calendar is so full now anyway it’s unlikely to happen