Best spinner after Warne/Murali ( 90s onwards) ?

[Sunil1z]

Nah he was better than Harbi but its close since Harbi is underrated and has more longevity.

Prove me Saqlain is clearly better than Harby.
I am giving Saqlain small edge because he was never as bad as Harby in last 5 years .

 

[Sunil1z]

No because he handed the famed Indian batting line ups arse back to them. Once in a while pacers have done it in India, but a spinner doing it was unheard. That series is good enough for me to consider him as a top class spinner.

Sample size of 2 Tests on dust bowl .

Harbhajan 2001 against Aus > Anything Saqlain ever did

 

[Shri]

minimum wickets criteria 20

here are the ones who have at least drawn games in australia since warne/murali where spinners go to die (look at their averages), except for radioactive mutations that are named after a french city



here are the ones who somehow won single tests in australia at some point excluding warne/murali



here are the ones who have won at least one series in australia



and here is the only one who has won two test series in australia



ashwin is easily the best in the world since warne/murali

 

[OverratedSanity]

Let's be real here, in 1999 it was not the "famed Indian batting lineup" that Migara keeps saying Saqlain ran through. They were still great against spin and Saqlain deserves a ton of credit for his performance. But that lineup was not close to the level they reached with the emergence of Sehwag, Gambhir and Dhoni and VVS moving down the order, so stop implying it was the peak Indian spin destroying lineup. It wasn't.

Maybe Saqlain still kills that lineup if he came on tour in 2005 or 2007 (I mean, even Udal managed it once), or maybe he gets destroyed again like in 2004. There's absolutely no way of knowing.

 

[h_hurricane]

That line up was missing Sidhu too, whom Migara rates very highly.

 

[subshakerz]

Prove me Saqlain is clearly better than Harby.
I am giving Saqlain small edge because he was never as bad as Harby in last 5 years .

Watching both of them throughout their careers. Saqlain rarely bowled poorly even when he didn't take wickets. Harbi was much less consistent and lost his radar often.

 

[subshakerz]

Let's be real here, in 1999 it was not the "famed Indian batting lineup" that Migara keeps saying Saqlain ran through. They were still great against spin and Saqlain deserves a ton of credit for his performance. But that lineup was not close to the level they reached with the emergence of Sehwag, Gambhir and Dhoni and VVS moving down the order, so stop implying it was the peak Indian spin destroying lineup. It wasn't.

Maybe Saqlain still kills that lineup if he came on tour in 2005 or 2007 (I mean, even Udal managed it once), or maybe he gets destroyed again like in 2004. There's absolutely no way of knowing.

This is true, however it had peak Tendulkar and Azhar who was another ace at playing spin, along with Ganguly and Dravid. So performing against them is still a credible achievement.

Saqlain was the first spinner who actually seemed to trouble Tendulkar which I give him a lot of credit for, a year after Tendulkar decimated Warne.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I'd have definitely backed Saqlain to do much better than Harbhajan if his career has carried on tbf. Bhajji was depressing to watch. Just a gutless bowler post 2004 or so. Just fired it in flat and was scared to flight it.

 

[subshakerz]

I'd have definitely backed Saqlain to do much better than Harbhajan if his career has carried on tbf. Bhajji was depressing to watch. Just a gutless bowler post 2004 or so. Just fired it in flat and was scared to flight it.

You are too harsh on Harbi. Later in his career, he became a good bowler overseas as evidenced in his SA 2011 and NZ 2009 tours. He was just quite poor though in the mid-2000s.

 

[trundler]

Some really weird sweeping statements with nothing to back them up from Migara in this thread. But regarding his fitness I will say that even today PCB is atrocious at handling injuries. Look at how poorly they managed Shaheen and Abbas. Azhar Ali spoke out against it too and said he had to go to UAE to get proper treatment. According to Shoaib, the best thing he did for his career was staying away from PCB's doctors. I can only imagine they had literal unani hakeems telling Saqlain a little haldi in milk will fix his knee. Anyway, it's one of those things that you either factor in when rating players or you don't but imo it definitely did screw up his numbers. Should've taken way more wickets but he didn't.

 

[subshakerz]

Some really weird sweeping statements with nothing to back them up from Migara in this thread. But regarding his fitness I will say that even today PCB is atrocious at handling injuries. Look at how poorly they managed Shaheen and Abbas. Azhar Ali spoke out against it too and said he had to go to UAE to get proper treatment. According to Shoaib, the best thing he did for his career was staying away from PCB's doctors. I can only imagine they had literal unani hakeems telling Saqlain a little haldi in milk will fix his knee. Anyway, it's one of those things that you either factor in when rating players or you don't but imo it definitely did screw up his numbers. Should've taken way more wickets but he didn't.

The problem is certain posters are treating Saqlain a bit as a one-trick pony with a the doosra. No doubt the doosra was his lethal weapon but he was also very accurate as an off-spinner and also quite intelligent in setting up batsmen too, and simply superb in flighting the bowl while switching the next ball to a flatter delivery without much change in action. I think he would have succeeded well in the 2000s era if not for injuries.

 

[Shri]

The problem is certain posters are treating Saqlain a bit as a one-trick pony with a the doosra. No doubt the doosra was his lethal weapon but he was also very accurate as an off-spinner and also quite intelligent in setting up batsmen too, and simply superb in flighting the bowl while switching the next ball to a flatter delivery without much change in action. I think he would have succeeded well in the 2000s era if not for injuries.

maybe

but you don't see anyone seriously comparing shane bond to james anderson or some such

 

[trundler]

His doosra was chucky for sure sometimes imo. Don't know if he would've had to give it up or how he'd have done without it.

 

[subshakerz]

maybe

but you don't see anyone seriously comparing shane bond to james anderson or some such

dont get the comparison

 

[Shri]

there are a lot of things you don't get but ok carry on

 

[Arachnodouche]

You don't compare ppl with 200 wkts with those with over 400 and 600 wkts. His knees gave out boohoo write us a poem. Kumble bowled with a broken freakin jaw.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

MacGill was much better than both Saqlain and Harby and he isn't even included in the poll.

 

[Sunil1z]

MacGill was much better than both Saqlain and Harby and he isn't even included in the poll.

Should I remove Vettori and add Macgill ? ?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Should I remove Vettori and add Macgill ? ?

Perhaps.

Vettori was clearly the best batsman in that list but became just an accurate stock bowler post-injury. Also the lack of strike bowlers also affected him. If Bond had been fit during the 2000s I think Vettori's bowling figures would have been much better.

 

[honestbharani]

Age of 28 is not decline for any spinner

Lol @ taking any Pak cricketer's "age", esp. from the 90s, literally.