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Best team since Waugh/ Ponting’s Australia?

Best team?


  • Total voters
    84
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subshakerz

International Coach
It’s a question worth pondering over and definitely something I have wondered myself. I know current team gets a rep of how they can’t play spin. While they definitely aren’t on the level of previous teams, you also have to realize players back then didn’t really play on rank-turners like they do theses days. I remember back then, scores of 400-500 were quite common and wickets usually used to hold up till first three days; then it would gradually deteriorate. Compare that to wickets now that India have dished out; some of it starts turning square from day 2. My point is, we don’t really know how well past players would have done on these kind of wickets.

And that Indian team were vulnerable to quality pace bowling (Donald/ steyn/ McGrath etc.). So, I don’t have a reason to doubt Bumrah/ Shami would do well against them. Zaheer was good, but Bumrah-Shami-Yadav/ Siraj is a rung above (I woundnt play Axar here). So, even if we consider Kumble/ Bhajji = Ashwin/ Jadeja, current attack is fair bit better. Imo bowling strength coupled with Pant and Jadeja in lower order negates the batting strength of other side. I would also expect one or two players from first 5 to turn up (Rohit, Rahul or Pujara).

Which team would win will largely depend on how long Sehwag stays. If he is on the crease after first 20 overs, then they would win. He would dominate Ash/ Jadeja like he dominated every other spinner. But, I personally think he would be cleaned up by current paceman in first 15 overs.

I vote for current side but it’s definitely close.. If Kohli was as prolific as three years ago, then it would be a clear nod in favor of current team.
The reason Kohli's team has won on rank-turners is because the opposition teams haven't had any quality spinner capable of taking advantage of them. The best has been Nathan Lyon and he gave India a tough time in 2017. Herath they played close to his retirement. Imagine what Swann, Warne, Murali and Kumble/Harbi would do on such wickets?
 

OverratedSanity

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The reason Kohli's team has won on rank-turners is because the opposition teams haven't had any quality spinner capable of taking advantage of them. The best has been Nathan Lyon and he gave India a tough time in 2017. Herath they played close to his retirement. Imagine what Swann, Warne, Murali and Kumble/Harbi would do on such wickets?
Herath came to India in 2017 a few weeks after completely demolishing Pakistan in UAE.

It really depends on which version of this Indian team you match up against the Dhoni one. The current version has a terrible middle order but in 2015-17, they were in way better form. Kohli and Pujara especially. Bumrah has barely even needed to play at home. In that 2015-17 period, Shami Ishant and Umesh were all routinely outbowling overseas pacers in India. I'd say in Indian conditions, that version of Kohli's team was more reliable and would probably beat the Dhoni team. I don't think it'd be some wipeout like some people think, tho. Have always maintained this team is overrated a bit.
 

OverratedSanity

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Also honestly, a 2-2 in England is actually a good result for an Asian side tbh. Disappointing obviously considering the circumstances but not some disaster that ruins this team's standing greatly afaic. SA tour was worse. Casual non-regular Indian posters earlier in this thread needed a smackdown of humility though, pretending that the series was won at 2-1 was pretty ****ing stupid.
 

subshakerz

International Coach
Also honestly, a 2-2 in England is actually a good result for an Asian side tbh. Disappointing obviously considering the circumstances but not some disaster that ruins this team's standing greatly afaic. SA tour was worse. Casual non-regular Indian posters earlier in this thread needed a smackdown of humility though, pretending that the series was won at 2-1 was pretty ****ing stupid.
I mean, to put it in context, India drew in England in 2002 and won in 2007. Pakistan drew in England in 2016 and 2018. Sri Lanka won in England in 2014. So frankly a draw for this top-rated Indian side in England is par for the course.
 

subshakerz

International Coach
Herath came to India in 2017 a few weeks after completely demolishing Pakistan in UAE.

It really depends on which version of this Indian team you match up against the Dhoni one. The current version has a terrible middle order but in 2015-17, they were in way better form. Kohli and Pujara especially. Bumrah has barely even needed to play at home. In that 2015-17 period, Shami Ishant and Umesh were all routinely outbowling overseas pacers in India. I'd say in Indian conditions, that version of Kohli's team was more reliable and would probably beat the Dhoni team. I don't think it'd be some wipeout like some people think, tho. Have always maintained this team is overrated a bit.
2015 to 2017 there was no Bumrah though which reduces the edge of the Indian bowling. So it would still be close.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I mean, to put it in context, India drew in England in 2002 and won in 2007. Pakistan drew in England in 2016 and 2018. Sri Lanka won in England in 2014. So frankly a draw for this top-rated Indian side in England is par for the course.
The SL win was a 2 test series, if you wanna count that against 5 test and 4 test series. And if something that has happened 3 times over 50+ tours, I dont think "par for course" is how it should be described.
 

subshakerz

International Coach
The SL win was a 2 test series, if you wanna count that against 5 test and 4 test series. And if something that has happened 3 times over 50+ tours, I dont think "par for course" is how it should be described.
50+ tours? How far back are you willing to go? Because India had won in England in 71 and 86, and Pakistan won in 87, 92 and 96, and drew in 2001. The further back you go, the less notable a 2-2 draw seems.
 

TheJediBrah

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The reason Kohli's team has won on rank-turners is because the opposition teams haven't had any quality spinner capable of taking advantage of them. The best has been Nathan Lyon and he gave India a tough time in 2017. Herath they played close to his retirement. Imagine what Swann, Warne, Murali and Kumble/Harbi would do on such wickets?
Yeah Warne would destroy India :ph34r:
 

Xix2565

International Debutant
If the pitches are spinning mambas, that neutralizes India's pace advantage. Zaheer would still be a threat with his reverse. And frankly, I trust Sehwag, Laxman, Tendulkar and Dravid vs. Ashwin/Jadeja more than Kohli, Pujara, etc. vs Kumble/Harbi.
You're comparing the likes of Zaheer and the Indian pacers then to Bumrah/Shami/Umesh/Ishant, sorry but that's frankly ridiculous to say the former will be fine and the latter won't. And I'd back Ashwin/Jadeja all day vs Kumble/Harbhajan.
 

subshakerz

International Coach
You're comparing the likes of Zaheer and the Indian pacers then to Bumrah/Shami/Umesh/Ishant, sorry but that's frankly ridiculous to say the former will be fine and the latter won't. And I'd back Ashwin/Jadeja all day vs Kumble/Harbhajan.
I concede Kohlis team has a better attack overall. I just wonder how much the pacers will play a role if its spicy pitches.
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
One off match is ok, but consistency is best. India ODI team has best consistency for so many years
England was consistently the best from 2015-19 while NZ have been no 1 in the world for the last couple of years. I see India is currently ranked 4th in ODIs behind NZ, England, and Pakistan but ahead of Australia.
 
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