What is your ALL TIME WORLD XI TEAM for tests?

[Pap Finn Keighl]

ATG bowler + match winning batsman
Mike Procter

ATVG bowler + Match winning batsman + proper test career
Kapil Dev, Ian Botham, Keith Miller

ATG bowler + handy batsman + proper test career
Richard Hadlee, Imran Khan, Alan Davidson

 

[rtramdas]

But Imran was both a better batsman and bowler than Kapil anyway. I don’t get why you’d make Kapil the comparison for Procter when he bowled that joke Vaas pace and was at best a sporadic genius down the order with the bat. He’s third of the four 80s test allrounders, miles behind Imran and Botham and ahead of Hadlee, whose batting was really Mitchell Johnson standard at best.

Kapil was a better batsman to Imran. Imran's average is inflated by very high ratio of not outs. Kapil was 'Gilchrist level' w.r.t aggressiveness. Against 'Windies in Windies' Kapil was far better. Kapil played more quality knocks on the average when compared to Imran. All these counts.

In bowling too Kapil's end average need to be evaluated based on longevity, work density( non stop cricket especially at test level) and lack of support bowling.
Again, it is getting more revealed by the day that Imran's bowling stats were achieved by unfair method of ball tampering,

 

[Gob]

I didn't see any of them live so I have to resort to stats, footage and anecdotes to rate them. From what I've seen though, Imran looked as if he was the least talented batsman out of the lot. Botham and Kapil looked far more naturally gifted

Imran is a far better bowler than Kapil though

 

[honestbharani]

I didn't see any of them live so I have to resort to stats, footage and anecdotes to rate them. From what I've seen though, Imran looked as if he was the least talented batsman out of the lot. Botham and Kapil looked far more naturally gifted

Imran is a far better bowler than Kapil though

For an ATG attack and the #8 spot, I will always look to play the left armer for the variety. Neither Wasim or DAvison will look out of place in any ATG XI and they can wield the willow well enough for a #8.

 

[rtramdas]

I didn't see any of them live so I have to resort to stats, footage and anecdotes to rate them. From what I've seen though, Imran looked as if he was the least talented batsman out of the lot. Botham and Kapil looked far more naturally gifted

Imran is a far better bowler than Kapil though

you are looking just at plain bowling averages to judge them. Kapil bowled a whopping 27740 balls to Imran's 19458 only, that too in just 15.5 years. Imran took a lot of breathing space in between series as his long 21 year career span suggest. Again Kapil had far weaker bowling support thru out. There are lots of sub stats that substantiate my point. For instance take this stat, from 12 Jan 1979 to 15 Nov 1989 Kapil bowled 19796 balls(greater than career stats of Imran in just over 10 years time) and averaged 27.88 . Against 'Windies in Windies' Kapil was the better bowler.
All these counts. That is why I rate Kapil a 26.25 averaging bowler when pitted against Imran.
Similarly there are several contexts. Just comparison of plain averages is meaningless.

But if fair play factor(ball tampering) is taken into account, nothing matters. People who believes in fair play can't take Imran's bowling record as such.

 

[Gob]

you are looking just at plain bowling averages to judge them. Kapil bowled a whopping 27740 balls to Imran's 19458 only, that too in just 15.5 years. Imran took a lot of breathing space in between series as his long 21 year career span suggest. Again Kapil had far weaker bowling support thru out. There are lots of sub stats that substantiate my point. For instance take this stat, from 12 Jan 1979 to 15 Nov 1989 Kapil bowled 19796 balls(greater than career stats of Imran in just over 10 years time) and averaged 27.88 . Against 'Windies in Windies' Kapil was the better bowler.
All these counts. That is why I rate Kapil a 26.25 averaging bowler when pitted against Imran.
Similarly there are several contexts. Just comparison of plain averages is meaningless.

But if fair play factor(ball tampering) is taken into account, nothing matters. People who believes in fair play can't take Imran's bowling record as such.

I'm not looking at plain averages, I looked at how they bowled in country by country basis, their peaks, watched either of them bowl on YouTube and read a lot of what other people think and frankly you are the only person to suggest Kapil is anywhere near as good a bowler as Imran

Lack of support goes both ways ftr look at Murali and bowling huge amount of overs is admirable but if he got wickets more frequently, he wouldn't have to bowl that many. Nathen Lyon must have bowled many more overs than Pat Cummins that doesn't make him better. I don't know about ball tampering allegations. Fair enough if you take that to account I won't. As they say, its ain't cheating if you don't get caught

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Surely in an ATG team you want someone with a good strike rate, so bowling lots more overs to get not a lot more wickets is a negative. You want to bowl out the opposition quickly and then bat for a long time.

Bowling strike rates:

Hadlee 50.80
Imran 53.70
Botham 56.90
Kapil 63.90

 

[Burgey]

In bowling too Kapil's end average need to be evaluated based on longevity, work density( non stop cricket especially at test level) and lack of support bowling.

Tbis is often an argument folks use in support of Hadlee in AT arguments, except Hadlee averaged 21, not 30.

 

[ataraxia]

You don't know if that would've translated to test level. Hadlee had several years averaging mid to high thirties in CC while also being a premier bowler. Sobers too averaged ~27 and ~48 (from memory) and this was pretty late in his career when he was well past his 60s heyday. In fact, in the 7 tests he did play, Procter's stats pretty clearly favoured one discipline. We're already being pretty generous here by awarding him Hadlee status with the ball without much evidence but making him out to be some all round Ubermensch the like of which has never existed despite counter evidence is surely over the top.

Procter's early career batting maybe wasn't quality but neither was Hadlee's tbf.

 

[stephen]

I'm still reeling from the suggestion that Miller wasn't an ATG quick bowler. For a guy with a bad back due to a war injury, his results were petty great.

 

[grecian]

Is it a new thing to denigrate Imran's batting? I get that Botham and Kapil were flashier, but Imran made himself into a really solid batsman, but he had huge talent, and when he wanted he was a pretty clean hitter.

BY far the best of the 80s all-rounders for me. Rice possibly the only one that comes close, but obviously we'll never know how he would have fared in his prime internationally.

Imran and Hadlee get in my all-time team.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Luv 2 look at several contexts

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Hadlee, Imran, Procter.. Etc are in the league of Steyn, Donald or Akram

Kapil was equivalent of Anderson

 

[grecian]

I looked back in this thread to see what I'd put as an ATG team, and just saw me slagging off Peter Shilton for the same thing I was slagging him for not long ago, gawd I'm a repitive bore.

Anyhoo

Hobbs
Grace
Bradman
Kallis (almost purely as a bat)
Viv
Sobers (almost purely as a bat)
Gilchrist
Imran
Hadlee
Garner
Murali

It'll do.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

I'm still reeling from the suggestion that Miller wasn't an ATG quick bowler. For a guy with a bad back due to a war injury, his results were petty great.

So injuries stopped him from becoming an ATG bowler.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Kapil was equivalent of Anderson

No

So injuries stopped him from becoming an ATG bowler.

No lol

He was an ATG bowler. He took about the same wpm as Kapil but was way, way better

 

[ataraxia]

So injuries stopped him from becoming an ATG bowler.

nah, he was an ATG bowler despite injuries

 

[ma1978]

Hobbs
Gavaskar
Bradman
Tendulkar
Lara
Sobers
Gilchrist
Hadlee
Akram
Marshall
Warne

Hutton
Sutcliffe
Ponting
Lara
Richards
Kallis
Khan
Knott
Steyn
McGrath
Murali

Debates

Akram in first XI vs Mcgrath. Went with the left hander

Ponting or Hammond vs Kallis in second XI

Gavaskar vs Hutton

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Hobbs
Gavaskar
Bradman
Tendulkar
Lara
Sobers
Gilchrist
Hadlee
Akram
Marshall
Warne

Hutton
Sutcliffe
Ponting
Lara
Richards
Kallis
Khan
Knott
Steyn
McGrath
Murali

Debates

Akram in first XI vs Mcgrath. Went with the left hander

Ponting or Hammond vs Kallis in second XI

Gavaskar vs Hutton

Who’s the second Lara?

 

[honestbharani]

Who’s the second Lara?

The Prince is just that good ?