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Fast Bowler Survivor Round of 32 and Preliminary Finals
- Thread starter stephen
- Start date
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Barnes wasn't like O'Reilly.
harsh.ag
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
In 1938 Bradman discussed the bowling styles of O’Reilly and Sydney Barnes with the author Neville Cardus, and stated:
"I never saw Barnes, so I could not speak of how he bowled the leg-spinner. I only know that O’Reilly bowls it as well as I can imagine anyone bowling it. It couldn’t possibly be nastier."
Cited in ‘Bradman’s Best Ashes Teams’ by Roland Perry
From Bradman's XI and Eleven: The Greatest Eleven of the 20th Century and The Shorter Wisden 2016
"I never saw Barnes, so I could not speak of how he bowled the leg-spinner. I only know that O’Reilly bowls it as well as I can imagine anyone bowling it. It couldn’t possibly be nastier."
Cited in ‘Bradman’s Best Ashes Teams’ by Roland Perry
From Bradman's XI and Eleven: The Greatest Eleven of the 20th Century and The Shorter Wisden 2016
Michaelf7777777
International Debutant
Group A
Sydney Barnes
Malcolm Marshall
Imran Khan
Alan Davidson
Group B
Curtly Ambrose
Dennis Lillee
Ray Lindwall
Fred Trueman
Sydney Barnes
Malcolm Marshall
Imran Khan
Alan Davidson
Group B
Curtly Ambrose
Dennis Lillee
Ray Lindwall
Fred Trueman
Red_Ink_Squid
Cricketer Of The Year
Group A
Malcolm Marshall
Imran Khan
Sydney Barnes
Alan Davidson
Group B
Curtly Ambrose
Fred Trueman
Dennis Lillee
Ray Lindwall
Malcolm Marshall
Imran Khan
Sydney Barnes
Alan Davidson
Group B
Curtly Ambrose
Fred Trueman
Dennis Lillee
Ray Lindwall
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Barnes was, by all accounts, similar to Alec Bedser in pace, if not quicker (especially earlier in his career). There's heaps of decent-to-good footage of Bedser bowling available. There's also plenty of footage of O'Reilly to compare with Bedser.
ataraxia
International Coach
I think Bedser was likely a fair bit faster than Barnes due to the difference in era (speed king Larwood at 110kph anyone?).
Adjusted for era though like we usually do for other departments, that's a fair point.
NotMcKenzie
International Debutant
From a scattering of photographs I have seen, at least a few times Barnes bowled with the keeper back, something I do not know of ever happening with Bedser, although keeping expectations and standards would also have played a role in that.
As for 'speed king Larwood at 110kph anyone', your presumed source—that newsreel stephen linked in the ATG thread—simply got it wrong; 90 (mph) was the number (of obscure provenance) everyone knew, perhaps somebody's 9 looked like a 7.
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Line and Length
Cricketer Of The Year
Reading articles about Barnes, he is described as a "tearaway" early in his career who later became a fast-medium bowler before perfecting his leg-breaks.
"What sort of a bowler was Barnes at this stage? Gone was the “tearaway” aspect of his early career and in its place was a fast-medium bowler. Barnes was tall and slim with a smooth run up that began slowly before he accelerated and lengthened his stride finally leaping into his delivery. Much of his pace came from the long swing of an exceptionally high arm. He had not at this stage quite perfected the leg break that was to cement his reputation but it was in development and he was able to swing the ball as well as bowl an off-break at pace."
What is remarkable is that, due to injury and clashes with officialdom, he played only 27 of a possible 58 tests during his Test career. Of these, just 10 were played at home on bowler friendly English wickets. He played 13 Tests in Australia and 4 in South Africa and his figures were in no way flattered by regularly cleaning up tail-enders. He claimed Victor Trumper 13 times and Clem Hill 11 times - not bad victims!
On the 1901/02 Ashes tour of Australia, "after seeing how hard the pitches were Barnes decided that speed, while retaining control, should be his priority, and while he was not to be genuinely fast, he certainly had sufficient pace to be able to bump the ball disconcertingly at the Australian batsmen when he chose to do so."
It is generally regarded that Barnes developed his leg spin around 1903 - 1905 and he used this as a variation to his faster deliveries while maintaining the same action.
Ten years later, at the age of 39, Barnes was still opening the bowling for England in an Ashes series. His pace had understandably diminished yet he "used the new ball wisely and his match hauls were remarkably consistent, 8 wickets in each of the second and third Tests, and 7 in each of the last two."
The idea that Barnes just bowled medium pace spin stemmed from observations of his bowling late in his career. This would no doubt have been reinforced when Bradman mentioned both Barnes and O"Reilly in the same breath.
"What sort of a bowler was Barnes at this stage? Gone was the “tearaway” aspect of his early career and in its place was a fast-medium bowler. Barnes was tall and slim with a smooth run up that began slowly before he accelerated and lengthened his stride finally leaping into his delivery. Much of his pace came from the long swing of an exceptionally high arm. He had not at this stage quite perfected the leg break that was to cement his reputation but it was in development and he was able to swing the ball as well as bowl an off-break at pace."
What is remarkable is that, due to injury and clashes with officialdom, he played only 27 of a possible 58 tests during his Test career. Of these, just 10 were played at home on bowler friendly English wickets. He played 13 Tests in Australia and 4 in South Africa and his figures were in no way flattered by regularly cleaning up tail-enders. He claimed Victor Trumper 13 times and Clem Hill 11 times - not bad victims!
On the 1901/02 Ashes tour of Australia, "after seeing how hard the pitches were Barnes decided that speed, while retaining control, should be his priority, and while he was not to be genuinely fast, he certainly had sufficient pace to be able to bump the ball disconcertingly at the Australian batsmen when he chose to do so."
It is generally regarded that Barnes developed his leg spin around 1903 - 1905 and he used this as a variation to his faster deliveries while maintaining the same action.
Ten years later, at the age of 39, Barnes was still opening the bowling for England in an Ashes series. His pace had understandably diminished yet he "used the new ball wisely and his match hauls were remarkably consistent, 8 wickets in each of the second and third Tests, and 7 in each of the last two."
The idea that Barnes just bowled medium pace spin stemmed from observations of his bowling late in his career. This would no doubt have been reinforced when Bradman mentioned both Barnes and O"Reilly in the same breath.
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stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
My votes for A and B:
Group A
Malcolm Marshall
Sydney Barnes
Alan Davidson
Imran Khan
Group B
Dennis Lillee
Curtly Ambrose
Fred Trueman
Ray Lindwall
Preliminary Finals
Thank you for voting on Groups A and B.
In the preliminary finals you will vote on each bowler exactly twice. Groups A to D will be the seeded groups from the first round. Groups E to H are seeded slightly differently. Both rounds of voting will be combined to decide the top 8.
Group C
Glenn McGrath
Joel Garner
Waqar Younis
Michael Holding
Group D
Wasim Akram
Richard Hadlee
Dale Steyn
Allan Donald
Group A
Malcolm Marshall
Sydney Barnes
Alan Davidson
Imran Khan
Group B
Dennis Lillee
Curtly Ambrose
Fred Trueman
Ray Lindwall
Preliminary Finals
Thank you for voting on Groups A and B.
In the preliminary finals you will vote on each bowler exactly twice. Groups A to D will be the seeded groups from the first round. Groups E to H are seeded slightly differently. Both rounds of voting will be combined to decide the top 8.
Group C
Glenn McGrath
Joel Garner
Waqar Younis
Michael Holding
Group D
Wasim Akram
Richard Hadlee
Dale Steyn
Allan Donald
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Red_Ink_Squid
Cricketer Of The Year
Group C
Glenn McGrath
Waqar Younis
Joel Garner
Michael Holding
Group D
Richard Hadlee
Dale Steyn
Wasim Akram
Allan Donald
Glenn McGrath
Waqar Younis
Joel Garner
Michael Holding
Group D
Richard Hadlee
Dale Steyn
Wasim Akram
Allan Donald
