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Who are the top 5 Indian cricketers ever?

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
Are people seriously saying Kohli > Kumble already? What happened to value of longevity? Or fair to say it's a recency bias??
There is no recency bias in it. Kumble despite his admirable longevity does not have an ATG record. Replace Kumble with Dravid, and you are pretty much spot on regarding longevity w.r.t comparisons with Kohli.

As a matter of fact, I hate bringing Kumble down, one of the most likable blokes ever.
 

Chrish

International Debutant
There is no recency bias in it. Kumble despite his admirable longevity does not have an ATG record. Replace Kumble with Dravid, and you are pretty much spot on regarding longevity w.r.t comparisons with Kohli.

As a matter of fact, I hate bringing Kumble down, one of the most likable blokes ever.
Who is to say Kohli would have ATG record when he will be close to retirement? It's very likely that he would end up being one but no one owns crystal ball.

Word ATG is used too loosely these days.
 

Chrish

International Debutant
Kohli has scored 11520 runs and 43 centuries in ODIs.

Kohli has scored 6749 runs and 25 centuries in Tests.

Arguably Top 3 ODI batsman of all time and fourth best Indian Test batsman ever.
ODI/ T20s don't matter..
 

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
Who is to say Kohli would have ATG record when he will be close to retirement? It's very likely that he would end up being one but no one owns crystal ball.

Word ATG is used too loosely these days.
I never said Kohli is an ATG though :) His case is an arguable one as things stand. An average of 53 even if it goes down to late forties will still be a quite a bit better than Kumble considering Kohli is a better all conditions player.
 

Burgey

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ODI/ T20s don't matter..
Correct, but he’s still terrific. Can only judge on what’s before us and it’s all opinion, but as things stand right now Kohli’s Test numbers stack up enormously. No sledge intended at all on someone like Kumble if he misses out to him - this is pretty rarified air we’re talking
 

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
I feel Kumble vs Laxman is very close. While I rate Kumble a bit ahead, VVS was such an awesome back to the walls player.
 

OverratedSanity

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Yeah Dravid rates way higher as a batsmen than Kumble as a bowler. As mentioned, VVS is probably a closer call.
 

Logan

U19 Captain
1. Even though Dravid as a batsman is greater than Kumble as a bowler, Kumble won more matches for India than Dravid.

2. ODIs do matter. T20s not that much. But that’s my opinion.

3. Laxman vs Kumble isn’t even a debate. Kumble wins easily
 
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h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
1. Even though Dravid as a batsman is greater than Kumble as a bowler, Kumble won more matches for India than Dravid.

2. ODIs do matter. T20s not that much. But that’s my opinion.

3. Laxman vs Kumble isn’t even a debate. Kumble wins easily
Well, Kumble won more matches than Tendulkar also. Gavaskar was part of only 23 winning matches in his career. Kapil 24. That doesn't tell us anything about the relative quality of players.

Also, most would think that Laxman is very close to Kumble. He has won a good deal matches out of nowhere.
 

srbhkshk

International Captain
Yeah if we were to go by "How many matches did he win?" than Ashwin is the GOAT Indian cricketer.
 

srbhkshk

International Captain
Tests:

Sachin
Gavaskar
Dravid
Kapil
Kohli

Even though I dont particularly rate him tactically as a captain, Kohli's already India's most successful test captain statistically.
There are two problems in Kohli's captaincy - weird batsman selection and the **** wouldn't buzz off from the slips. Otherwise he has been fine imo.
 

vcs

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Yeah if we were to go by "How many matches did he win?" than Ashwin is the GOAT Indian cricketer.
Ashwin was pretty damn awesome between 2012-2016. Shame the dropoff has been so pronounced after that. His stats are still very good. Jaddu's not a bad replacement though.
 

vcs

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Kumble was our version of Jimmy Anderson. Lethal at home, great longevity, ATVG.
 

venkyrenga

U19 12th Man
Dravid’s overseas record is overrated.

1. The two best teams during Dravid’s playing days were Australia and South Africa.

2. In South Africa, he averaged 29 from 12 Tests.

In Australia, he averaged 42 from 16 Tests.

3. Dravid scores 1 century in 16 Tests in Australia. That too against an attack that didn’t have McGrath, Lee and Warne.





They are legendary knocks because India barely won anything back then and people remember rare things more.

I am not denying he was a great batsman in general and had a great peak between 2001-2006.

I am just saying Kohli has already overtaken Dravid as a batsman when all formats are considered.
No, it is not overrated. If anything you are underrating Dravid's overseas record by repeating those two points about Aus and SA.
Let's take a look at Dravid's overseas record during his peak (2002- 06).
Dravid - Peak Away - World wide.jpg

He was no.1 in the world by a distance averaging at 80 during that period.

Now let's take a look at his overall record during that period excluding the matches with the minnows.
Dravid - Peak World wide.jpg

He was no.2 in the world averaging at 67 just behind Ponting.

Now let's look at the all time record for all the Asian players overseas.
Dravid - Away - All time Asians.jpg

He is again no.1 averaging at 53.

Now lets look at the all time record for India's overseas wins.
Dravid - Away won - All time India.jpg

He is again no.1 by a big margin averaging at 71.

Dravid has won 4 man of the series awards overseas - Eng 02, Aus 03, WI 06 and Eng 11

Dravid has conquered the mighty Australian attack twice during his career for historical wins in Kolkata 01 and Adelaide 03. And not to forget his historical knocks at Rawalpindi 04 and Kingston 06 for series wins. It is not Dravid's fault that McGrath and Warne didn't play that 03 series, and that India didn't tour SA during his prime. Agreed that he didn't do well in SA when they did tour. But that doesn't diminish what he has accomplished in other countries.

Kohli's test career does not even come close to all of this. It is not anything particularly special if we are talking all time. We have three ATGs and then there is a huge gap. He may be an ATG ODI batsman but that does not have the same importance as being an ATG test batsman.

Kohli hasn't surpassed Dravid.
 
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shashy

School Boy/Girl Captain
Kumble easily deserves a top 5 place. He's won so many important matches for India, and let's not forget his stupendous 10/74. I can't think of any tougher challenge in cricket than facing Kumble in India on the 4th/5th day. Absolute legend.
 

ma1978

International 12th Man
The top 5 debate is interesting but it essentially boils down to Kapil, Gavaskar and Tendulkar plus two of Kohli, Dravid and Kumble. I personally think Dravid and Kohli (25 centuries in not a lot of tests) edge Kumble but can see all sides of this argument.

Top 10 is even more interesting.

If the top 6 are established, then there are a lot of interesting competitors for the next 4.

Sehwag
Laxman
Ashwin
Bedi
Hazare
Vengsarkar
Vishwanath
Chandrasekar
Pujara
Ganguly

I'd go with Laxman, Sehwag, Hazare, Ashwin for 6-10 but I'm interested in what others think
 

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