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Who are the top 5 Indian cricketers ever?

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venkyrenga

U19 12th Man
Daemon said:
You can't use rankings like that because they take into account prior periods as well. Looking at the 2001/2 or even 2003 ranking has not much significance when trying to assess performances between 2002-2006. Note how he's ranked 1 in 2004 when the rankings basically take his all of his 2002-04 runs into account.

Nonetheless I think a 2000s peak is kinda meh as an achievement compared to other eras because of batting friendliness of it all.
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Why does it matter though when considering the peak of a certain batsman? His contemporaries are also batting in the same conditions and facing the same bowlers. If anything you must only consider the quality of the batsmen of that era because it is them we are making a direct comparison with. And 2000s had better quality batsmen compared to this era.
 
Cruxdude

Cruxdude

International Debutant
venkyrenga said:
It is not Dravid's fault that except Steven Smith none of Kohli's contemporaries are in the level of Ponting, Lara, Sachin, Sanga, Kallis, etc. And Dravid was still one of the best of his time.

Kohli is 31 and at the peak of his career. He still hasn't had a single knock as legendary as Dravid's Kolkatta 01, Adelaide 03, Rawalpindi 04 or even Kingston 06. Dravid scored more runs in India's overseas wins than any other batsman. Dravid along with Gavaskar and Sachin are the only 3 Indian batsmen with a 50+ avg overseas.

So it is highly unlikely that Kohli will rate ahead or anywhere near Dravid by the end of his career.
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I will say Dravid is still ahead of Kohli but it is just ignorant to say he doesn't have any great knocks.

He was pretty epic in England. His 149 and 51 in first were great and almost got us a win.

He was brilliant in the test we won too. 103 and 97 in https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/18018/scorecard/1119551/england-vs-india-3rd-test-ind-in-eng-2018

His innings in https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/18065/scorecard/1122277/south-africa-vs-india-2nd-test-ind-in-sa-2017-18 was another great innings with next to no support.

Another great knock against Australia https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/18693/scorecard/1144994/australia-vs-india-2nd-test-india-in-aus-2018-19

We tend to romanticize the past a bit too much. Dravid was a great batsman but one has to accept that Adelaide and Rawalpindi were pretty much flat tracks. I think Kohli has the potential to be greater than Dravid but right now he is not. That doesn't mean he has not had his own set of great innings.
 
Cruxdude

Cruxdude

International Debutant
vcs said:
Kumble was our version of Jimmy Anderson. Lethal at home, great longevity, ATVG.
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Think Ashwin is our Anderson. Seriously him not getting in to the Indian team now is so harsh.
 
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V

venkyrenga

U19 12th Man
Cruxdude said:
I will say Dravid is still ahead of Kohli but it is just ignorant to say he doesn't have any great knocks.

He was pretty epic in England. His 149 and 51 in first were great and almost got us a win.

He was brilliant in the test we won too. 103 and 97 in https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/18018/scorecard/1119551/england-vs-india-3rd-test-ind-in-eng-2018

His innings in https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/18065/scorecard/1122277/south-africa-vs-india-2nd-test-ind-in-sa-2017-18 was another great innings with next to no support.

Another great knock against Australia https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/18693/scorecard/1144994/australia-vs-india-2nd-test-india-in-aus-2018-19

We tend to romanticize the past a bit too much. Dravid was a great batsman but one has to accept that Adelaide and Rawalpindi were pretty much flat tracks. I think Kohli has the potential to be greater than Dravid but right now he is not. That doesn't mean he has not had his own set of great innings.
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Oh! Kohli was absolutely brilliant in England 2014 and Australia 2018. I just said his knocks were not as remarkable as Dravid's. He is only behind Smith at the moment. I am not denying that. I was just refuting the notion that Kohli has already surpassed Dravid as a batsman or he is on his way to surpass Dravid in test cricket. Neither is true. He is good, very good but he is no Gavaskar, Dravid or Sachin in test cricket.

By the way Headingley, Kingston and Perth were not flat pitches by any means.
 
Burner

Burner

International Regular
Has Dravid ever had a series like Kohli had vs England at home? Kohli buried England dead that series. In a way if he wasn't as ruthless that series and scored some fewer runs, the series would have been worth talking about as it wouldn't be as drab an affair.
 
Daemon

Daemon

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Burner said:
Has Dravid ever had a series like Kohli had vs England at home? Kohli buried England dead that series. In a way if he wasn't as ruthless that series and scored some fewer runs, the series would have been worth talking about as it wouldn't be as drab an affair.
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We're talking about a series where Jayant Yadav scored a hundred and Nair a triple. Kohli was still head and shoulders above everyone else but it's still a weird yardstick to hold Dravid to.
 
V

venkyrenga

U19 12th Man
Burner said:
Has Dravid ever had a series like Kohli had vs England at home? Kohli buried England dead that series. In a way if he wasn't as ruthless that series and scored some fewer runs, the series would have been worth talking about as it wouldn't be as drab an affair.
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Well, you don't need a Dravid or Gavaskar to win matches at home. A Sehwag, Ganguly or even Nair can do the job.

While we are at it, let's make a fair comparison between Dravid and Kohli. Let's see where Dravid was at when he was 31 years old (end of 2003).
He was averaging 57.4 and Kohli is now at 53.1. And Dravid was averaging 64.5 overseas and Kholi's overseas average is now at 46.9 (this excludes minnows). And by that time Dravid already had 3 historical match winning knocks (Kolkatta 01, Headingley 02 and Adelaide 03). There really isn't any comparison.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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Rahane was the awesome version of Rahane when he got all those overseas runs tbh.That ton at Lord's one of the best I've seen.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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Actually now looking at the that, apart from the Lord's ton, the rest of the runs Rahane got are from the ****e version of Rahane. So yeah, not that I didnt know such a stat was useless, but that kinda hammers it home.
 
srbhkshk

srbhkshk

International Captain
Apparently Ishant is part of 8 Indian victories in SENA, Sachin/Sunny/Dravid have 7. :laugh:

Edit - Bumrah has 4 in a one year career.
 
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Cruxdude

Cruxdude

International Debutant
venkyrenga said:
Oh! Kohli was absolutely brilliant in England 2014 and Australia 2018. I just said his knocks were not as remarkable as Dravid's. He is only behind Smith at the moment. I am not denying that. I was just refuting the notion that Kohli has already surpassed Dravid as a batsman or he is on his way to surpass Dravid in test cricket. Neither is true. He is good, very good but he is no Gavaskar, Dravid or Sachin in test cricket.

By the way Headingley, Kingston and Perth were not flat pitches by any means.
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Having watched most of these innings ball by ball I beg to differ. They were pretty remarkable especially the first test against England . He added 57 for the last wicket with Umesh Yadav and Umesh's contribution was 1 run. He single handedly took India to a victory in conditions that were really tough. The one against SA was pretty similar too. Kohli has had his fair share of failures but I can see him surpassing Dravid by the time he finishes. May not happen but I would absolutely not say it is because he doesn't play as many remarkable innings.
 
V

venkyrenga

U19 12th Man
Cruxdude said:
Having watched most of these innings ball by ball I beg to differ. They were pretty remarkable especially the first test against England . He added 57 for the last wicket with Umesh Yadav and Umesh's contribution was 1 run. He single handedly took India to a victory in conditions that were really tough. The one against SA was pretty similar too. Kohli has had his fair share of failures but I can see him surpassing Dravid by the time he finishes. May not happen but I would absolutely not say it is because he doesn't play as many remarkable innings.
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I respect your view. But comparing Kohli's stats with Dravid's when he was his age (31) does not match at all. Outside Indian subcontinent Dravid was averaging 64.5 and Kohli is at 46.9. Dravid was just way more consistent.

But Dravid was not the same after 2006. If Kohli can continue his peak for maybe another 3- 4 years he could get there but I highly doubt it will last that long.
 
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