Test XI for The Last Quarter Century

[Mr Miyagi]

1st ODI, Pakistan tour of India at Chennai, Dec 30 2012 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

3rd ODI (D/N), Australia tour of India at Chandigarh, Oct 19 2013 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

2nd ODI (D/N), England tour of India at Cuttack, Jan 19 2017 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

1st ODI (D/N), Australia tour of India at Chennai, Sep 17 2017 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

Oh c'mon - he must have more than 4 good games after 318 odi's :P He has 10 centuries at least.

 

[vcs]

If you guys only want to judge Dhoni by his "past-it" plodding version of the last couple of years, go ahead.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Dhoni’s strike rate is no where near good enough in this era for a lower order batter (to get into an all time team) that’s for sure. He regularly just puts pressure on himself, the team and the other batsman that’s at the crease with him. I don’t like how he chases or sets totals. I’d be very happy to see him on the opposing side over someone like Buttler or Gilchrist

Yeah, this is how you, I and many more see it, but not all of us. I have seen and read about utter Dhoni brilliance, and I have seen and read about utter Dhoni stifles.

I don't like his SR either.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

If you guys only want to judge Dhoni by his "past-it" plodding version of the last couple of years, go ahead.

Couple of years? It goes back a further than a couple doesn't it?

 

[Jack1]

I think, and it is just my opinion, you need some more stable batting, the masses will speak. But I suspect that is what they will want too.

Already got a lot of replies like that. I don’t sit on the fence or pick to be PC. I pick a team to win in all situations and want to try to demoralise the opponent with bat and ball from ball 1. I prefer the balance on my team for batting bowling and fielding. I suppose I could try to get rid of Ambrose or McGrath for a fast bowler that can bat and field slightly better. But I feel like wanting runs from 10 and 11 is a bit ridiculous especially when it bats to 9 already and no one in my team is a bad fielder in the top 9 either. So I just went with the best two bowlers in my mind at the bottom.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

That’s why McGrath’s in my team!

Maxwell averages 32 in Odis, he’s not a number 11 lol

The way you have built this team, averages are irrelevant.

You want to see the sr vs average balls faced per dismissal.

That is where Bolo was hinting without expressing it.

You have so much firepower. But Kohli is your ONLY stayer.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Already got a lot of replies like that. I don’t sit on the fence or pick to be PC. I pick a team to win in all situations and want to try to demoralise the opponent with bat and ball from ball 1. I prefer the balance on my team for batting bowling and fielding. I suppose I could try to get rid of Ambrose or McGrath for a fast bowler that can bat and field slightly better. But I feel like wanting runs from 10 and 11 is a bit ridiculous especially when it bats to 9 already and no one in my team is a bad fielder in the top 9 either. So I just went with the best two bowlers in my mind at the bottom.

That's cool. Noone can say your side wouldn't be hugely and massively entertaining. When Kohli is the most boring aspect of the top 8, you're onto something good as a fan.

 

[Jack1]

If you guys only want to judge Dhoni by his "past-it" plodding version of the last couple of years, go ahead.

The stats speak for themselves. His SR is horrendous and average inflated by not outs (don’t need a big average down the order either). A player like Buttler, Maxwell, Russell or whoever will just tee off at the bottom (or top) of the order (and try to get the scoreboard moving as fast as possible) and literally not care if potentially getting out will knock their average down. They are focused on strike rate for the team. Dhoni either bats for his average too much and/or doesn’t trust team mates (neither of these are good). He bats too slowly and doesn’t take enough risks. I don’t like that style of batting at all. The fact a player like Kohli bats up the order with proper shots and has a superior strike rate says everything

Edited this slightly

Don’t get me wrong. He’s a decent player and good keeper now, but he does frustrate by batting slower than he needs to in every situation. It’s a shame he doesn’t take more risks. Imagine how much his strike rate might be if he was happy with 40 career average in Odis. I feel like his mindset is too weighted towards average

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Yeah, overall I agree with John vcs. Dhonis sr and average with so many huge scores in Indian odi don't convince me neither given where he bats.

Best stumping glovework (literally "stumped") I've ever seen though bar none.

 

[smash84]

Dhoni had a stellar decade from 2004 to 2014. It is after the 2015 WC that he has started a slide downwards. He easily makes the AT side as a keeper and finisher (and is also captaincy material).

 

[Bolo]

Who are the high-fliers and the bankers of ODI cricket? - ESPNcricinfo

This needs radical era adjustment but would still be helpful

There's a real wierd piece of mental gymnastics on the go in the second part of that article:

'Two facts to be noted: Kohli is the only batsman on both tables. That is the sign of his true greatness.'

Wow. So wrong. Appearing in the second table makes him a weaker bat, not a better one. We know his runs per innings already. Facing more balls to get these runs means he has a lower strike rate only.

If this was a moonda piece I'd probably call it a non-partisan and of above average quality. But from Anantha this is a monumental fail.

 

[Daemon]

Since we're all talking bollocks here's my XI

Narine
Johnson Charles
Southee
Misbah (c)
Afridi
Binny
Rhodes
Sreesanth
Saj Mahmood
Tait
Alan Border (+)

 

[OverratedSanity]

Needs more Ian Harvey

 

[Burgey]

Really? Cos metronomic line and legnth is such a problem for him :P McGrath 2.0 aka Hazlewood just called ABdV the best bat he has ever bowled to on the Back Page this week. What is McGrath going to do, swing it? :P

Get him out. Like he most often did. That was his genius. Didn’t swing it round corners, didn’t have explosive pace. Just did enough all the time and adjusted to different players.

 

[trundler]

McGrath has 55 wickets in 27 tournament finals/knockouts, Now that's something. McGrath did everything in optimal amount. That vid of him bowling to and getting Warner out is great. McGrath could outwit him too. I'm sure. Who saw a 130 KPH trundler with little swing making Tendulkar and Lara his bunnies?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Since we're all talking bollocks here's my XI

Narine
Johnson Charles
Southee
Misbah (c)
Afridi
Binny
Rhodes
Sreesanth
Saj Mahmood
Tait
Alan Border (+)

Not bad. We should make an "ATG XI thay will get out for under 100 quite often but once in a while make 300 in 30 overs" thread.

 

[trundler]

Yeah Misbah still not getting that hundred

 

[Burgey]

McGrath has 55 wickets in 27 tournament finals/knockouts, Now that's something. McGrath did everything in optimal amount. That vid of him bowling to and getting Warner out is great. McGrath could outwit him too. I'm sure. Who saw a 130 KPH trundler with little swing making Tendulkar and Lara his bunnies?

The other example of McGrath's subtle genius is his hat trick against the West Indies.

There have been a **** load of hat tricks in international cricket, but not many have been as good as his - one right hander, two lefties and three completely different balls executed perfectly to get them all out. Squared Campbell up short of a length to first, then one decking the other way to Lara for a catch to gully. But the best of all was the ball that got Adams - completely different MO and perfectly executed. It was immaculate bowling.

 

[cnerd123]

Buttler doesn't need consistency for me, he needs to continue the SR at the same mid 30's average. It isn't much of an ask to average mid 30's it is massive to ask to a SR of 118 though.

The flaw here is that if you are averaging 30 odd in regular ODIs, you probably will not average 30 odd against another ATG attack

Its not a linear conversion. Every player will probably perform below their career average if they had to play a series of games against an ATG team. Like Sachin with average less with the bat, McGrath more with the ball, that's basically a given.

But this reduction in average, in performance, is not linear. Sachin and McGrath will have a smaller dip in their performance than Jos Butler or Brett Lee. Simply because they are ATG caliber players - not just statistically, but skill wise. We know this from their entire body of work. Butler and Lee have great stats, sure, but ones career isn't over and the other had more significantly success against the weaker batsmen in his era than he did against the better ones.

The dip off on how Butler and Lee would perform when pared up against another ATG team in this hypothetical scenario is significant. It is not significant for the actual, proven ATG players.

Plus the whole SR argument is dumb when comparing between eras anyways. Especially when you're talking about players whose careers are still in progress

 

[trundler]

That Adams wicket was indeed the best. After watching it, it looks like such an obvious plan. Bet he could trap ABDV and dare I say Viv in one those plans.