What does Kohli need to surpass Tendulkar?

[Red]

Tendulkar and Kohli both probably make my ATG ODI XI most days now. I'd consider them on par in that format, considering the differences in eras they played in.

Tendulkar makes my test XI at #4. Kohli is nowhere near that at this point. I'd have him on par-ish with Smith, Williamson, Root etc as a test batsman.

It's easy to forget that Tendulkar was the most rounded test batsman we've probably all seen. Equally adept against pace or spin, against swing, against whatever. In all conditions. Averaged 55 vs. Australia in the McGrath/Warne era (and that remained at that level IN Australia). Tendulkar averaged 60 against a SL attack led by Murali. And he had great success in England, which Kohli is yet to do (albeit with limited chances so far).

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Hand-eye coordination Sachin wins...

Timing Kohli wins...

Not really a record though

 

[Victor Ian]

How good is kohli for this thread to even exist. 5 years ago it would have been ludicrous to think another batsman could have such a thread (at least for a long long time)

 

[Contra]

This argument gets tired. All elite sportsmen face extra pressure & expectations from fans, because they're really good. It just so happens that India has over a billion people. Do we say that England's greatest ever cricketer would be under more pressure than Bradman, just because England's population was 4 times Australia's at the time?

You just don't hear this used to justify the greatness of other really famous sportsmen in history. Their deeds alone do that.

No it really doesn't, India has a greater population now than it did when Tendulkar came on the scene, doesn't change the fact that for the first 12-13 years of Tendulkar's career he was literally the only guy who the fans wanted to watch, his aura was insane, he was expected to win you practically every game, people turned off their TV's if Sachin got out.

A large majority of non Indian ex-cricketers and his contemporaries have used the very same argument stressing that while there have been batsmen that are close to Tendulkar's calibire in terms of sheer batting ability, its the intense pressure he had upon him that put him above others in that era.The opposition teams knew if they got Sachin out the rest of the Indian team itself would lose confidence, infact even the Indian team of the nineties knew knew Sachin was the only guy to pull of some of those otherwise impossible game situations way back in those times.

I'm not saying modern day players don't have pressures, but Tendulkar's burden was something else.

 

[Kirkut]

While that's true, I also think someone like Kohli is much better at dealing with pressure in general. If you see Sachin Tendulkar's documentary you will learn how much his wife had to take care to ensure Tendulkar stays away from family affairs and can be fully immersed into Cricket even when he is not on field. This level of obsession is honestly his own doing, and is one reason why he missed out some top memorably knocks (rarely makes it to any top 100 innings lists).

That's deep! Ironically Kohli credits Anushka for the matured cricketer he is now.

 

[Victor Ian]

While that's true, I also think someone like Kohli is much better at dealing with pressure in general. If you see Sachin Tendulkar's documentary you will learn how much his wife had to take care to ensure Tendulkar stays away from family affairs and can be fully immersed into Cricket even when he is not on field. This level of obsession is honestly his own doing, and is one reason why he missed out some top memorably knocks (rarely makes it to any top 100 innings lists).

If I knew this was one of the benefits of being an elite cricketer I would have definitely tried harder as a youngster. I wonder if it made his wife shut-the-f-up too, or is that the impossible dream?

 

[Spark]

No it really doesn't, India has a greater population now than it did when Tendulkar came on the scene, doesn't change the fact that for the first 12-13 years of Tendulkar's career he was literally the only guy who the fans wanted to watch, his aura was insane, he was expected to win you practically every game, people turned off their TV's if Sachin got out.

A large majority of non Indian ex-cricketers and his contemporaries have used the very same argument stressing that while there have been batsmen that are close to Tendulkar's calibire in terms of sheer batting ability, its the intense pressure he had upon him that put him above others in that era.The opposition teams knew if they got Sachin out the rest of the Indian team itself would lose confidence, infact even the Indian team of the nineties knew knew Sachin was the only guy to pull of some of those otherwise impossible game situations way back in those times.

I'm not saying modern day players don't have pressures, but Tendulkar's burden was something else.

How does this argument not apply to Border, or later Lara, or even Steve Smith, if it simply boils down to "he's the only good middle order batsman in the side"?

 

[srbhkshk]

How good is kohli for this thread to even exist. 5 years ago it would have been ludicrous to think another batsman could have such a thread (at least for a long long time)

Tendulkar in a function actually picked Kohli as the one to break his records a long time ago, that said he also picked Sharma so make of that what you will.

 

[srbhkshk]

How does this argument not apply to Border, or later Lara, or even Steve Smith, if it simply boils down to "he's the only good middle order batsman in the side"?

People didn't set fire to stadiums and homes if their team lost games.

 

[Kirkut]

How does this argument not apply to Border, or later Lara, or even Steve Smith, if it simply boils down to "he's the only good middle order batsman in the side"?

Indian cricket fans in the 90s were as emotional as Brazilian football fans when their team dominated the sport. Fans of both the countries reacted the same way when their teams suffered setbacks.

 

[Daemon]

How does this argument not apply to Border, or later Lara, or even Steve Smith, if it simply boils down to "he's the only good middle order batsman in the side"?

because it doesn't simply boil down to that

 

[Dawood Ahmad]

As the title suggests, there are already many who are suggesting that Kohli has it in him to be the greatest Indian batsman ever. My question is, what would that entail, at what point can we suggest that Kohli can safely claim this title?

Tendulkar's big pluses, aside from his immaculate game itself, was a terrific peak between 97 - 2002 when bowling attacks were at their peak, and overall achieved terrific consistency in two decades of play across countries and opposition.

Bearing that in mind, I can see Kohli overtaking Sachin if he can sustain his peak for another 6-8 years across countries, but I think the clincher would be 1-2 all-time great matchwinning knocks of the Lara/Laxman variety to seal the deal. This is in tests, in ODIs he may already be there.

IMO, and in the opinion of most people, Sachin was a better batsman than Kohli is. Kohli got many advantages over Sachin, including:
1. The 4 fileder rule
2. Sachin got better opponents, played against better bowlers.
3. He is taller than Sachin.

As a batsman, Kohli can't statistically Surpass Sachin. He can only become equal to Sachin. Because at his best, Kohli can get better in ODI only, but what about Tests?

 

[Daemon]

IMO, and in the opinion of most people, Sachin was a better batsman than Kohli is. Kohli got many advantages over Sachin, including:
1. The 4 fileder rule
2. Sachin got better opponents, played against better bowlers.
3. He is taller than Sachin.

As a batsman, Kohli can't statistically Surpass Sachin. He can only become equal to Sachin. Because at his best, Kohli can get better in ODI only, but what about Tests?

 

[Chrish]

To be frank every contemporary Cricketer adds one sentence when talking about Tendy: "Carrying pressure of hopes from 1 billion people".

So, there is some truth in it that he was burdened with "more" responsibility as acknowledged and appreciated by every other Cricketer; Indian or otherwise.

 

[Zinzan]

No it really doesn't, India has a greater population now than it did when Tendulkar came on the scene, doesn't change the fact that for the first 12-13 years of Tendulkar's career he was literally the only guy who the fans wanted to watch, his aura was insane, he was expected to win you practically every game, people turned off their TV's if Sachin got out.
.

How could he be expected to win every game when his average was just the same as a number of other top batsmen of his era? Those who thought that clearly couldn't have been real cricket fans because that's pretty damn stupid & shows they didn't understand how cricket works, and hence shouldn't have even worth worrying about. Same applies to those who turned the TV off once he was dismissed. True Indian cricket fans (like 99% of members here), wouldn't be that fickle.

 

[ankitj]

That's deep! Ironically Kohli credits Anushka for the matured cricketer he is now.

Kohli is bull****ting. He tries to overcompensate his general douchebaggery with such made up magnanimity. None of the said maturity is visible anyways.

 

[Zinzan]

To be frank every contemporary Cricketer adds one sentence when talking about Tendy: "Carrying pressure of hopes from 1 billion people".

So, there is some truth in it that he was burdened with "more" responsibility as acknowledged and appreciated by every other Cricketer; Indian or otherwise.

Is there really that much extra pressure for a country's most famous sportsman if their country happens to have 1 billion people as opposed to say 50 million? I mean I get the former is more, but I'd have thought once you get into the millions of fans category, it's really much in a muchness.

Both scenarios = heaps of fans, heaps of pressure and expectations.

Wee bit like the argument that Bill Gates for all intents and purposes isn't really that much better off with his 80 billion dollars and another billionaire worth just 3 billion.... both are rich as **** and Gates couldn't really live much better in practical terms than the guy worth 3 billion.

 

[srbhkshk]

How could he be expected to win every game when his average was just the same as a number of other top batsmen of his era? Those who thought that clearly couldn't have been real cricket fans because that's pretty damn stupid & shows they didn't understand how cricket works, and hence shouldn't have even worth worrying about. Same applies to those who turned the TV off once he was dismissed. True Indian cricket fans (like 99% of members here), wouldn't be that fickle.

Actually in the 90s, Tendulkar had the best average in tests at 58, Waugh and Lara the other 2 best batsman were below 54. In ODIs only Bevan had a markedly superior average but Tendulkar scored his runs far quicker than the rest.

But anyway, the reason *he* was expected to get the wins was because no one really trusted any other batsman in the team before Ganguly/Dravid established themselves, and for good reason too.

 

[ankitj]

That's deep! Ironically Kohli credits Anushka for the matured cricketer he is now.

Also, Ms. Tendulkar also says that she hopes her son Arjun doesn't go the same way because she doesn't have energy to go through the same grind again. Made me realize how much she sacrificed to make Tendulkar the phenomenon happen! All Indian fans probably owe a bit to her.

 

[Zinzan]

Actually in the 90s, Tendulkar had the best average in tests at 58, Waugh and Lara the other 2 best batsman were below 54. In ODIs only Bevan had a markedly superior average but Tendulkar scored his runs far quicker than the rest.

But anyway, the reason *he* was expected to get the wins was because no one really trusted any other batsman in the team before Ganguly/Dravid established themselves, and for good reason too.

It's there or thereabouts. Besides, it doesn't really change that fact that they couldn't have been real proper cricket fans who would expect any batsman (even Bradman) to win every game, so sounds like they were just passive watchers as opposed to cricket fans. Same applies to anyone who turns off their TV just because their favourite batsmen got dismissed. .