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Placing our bets on "Test Cricket's Young Fab Four"

Which of these "Young Fabbies" will make it the biggest?


  • Total voters
    46
  • Poll closed .

vcs

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Jeez you'd be tempted to keep with Bairstow after that series wouldn't you?
Very much so, but I couldn't overlook the counter-attacking firepower that De Kock and Stokes could give you down the order. QdK batted beautifully in the ODIs last year, no reason to assume he can't do it in Tests as well. But yeah, Bairstow desperately unlucky to miss out after his performance in the recent series.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
It's no insult to your mate Kohli at all, don't be so sensitive.
Just debating with you Zinzan on the quality of the England attack. Didn't see the need for that, but anyway.

I agree with your overall point, I just rate England's bowling in India over most teams.
 

OverratedSanity

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Very much so, but I couldn't overlook the counter-attacking firepower that De Kock and Stokes could give you down the order. QdK batted beautifully in the ODIs last year, no reason to assume he can't do it in Tests as well. But yeah, Bairstow desperately unlucky to miss out after his performance in the recent series.
Bairstow kept pretty well though, which surprised me. Didn't make many mistakes, though this may be partly down to the fact that the spinners hardly created any chances for him to mess up.

Don't know how qdk will keep on slower surfaces... It's such a big change for overseas keepers.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
You're deluded if you think they had a good attack for Indian conditions compared to the other sides I mentioned above. Rashid was quite good, but unlikely as good as Herath or Shah on those tracks & the other English spinners were terrible. Even with Rashid doing quite well, West Indies and Bangers have more depth in the spin department for those tracks.
Why do you choose to ignore Broad and Anderson? Basically because they didn't do well, right? Well, Shami did. This is arguing from the other side of the series.
 

OverratedSanity

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Yeah, the fact that Shami had such good figures, despite having several catches dropped off his bowling showed that the conditions had something for the quicks. Certainly not "all down to the spinners" as Zinzan said.

In fact that's one of the things Cook got totally wrong. Didn't trust his seamers enough. Stokes was really good for example, but cook just didn't bowl him enough.
 

Zinzan

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Just debating with you Zinzan on the quality of the England attack. Didn't see the need for that, but anyway.

I agree with your overall point, I just rate England's bowling in India over most teams.
Yeah, I used 'very ordinary' relatively speaking compared what Root had to face up to as a foreign batsman vs. Ashwin & co, compared to Kohli facing NZ/Eng in his own backyard. Felt I needed to point out It wasn't a swipe at Kohli (or Smith for that matter), since your reaction suggested you felt it was.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Yeah as I said, agree with your overall point. Root's been on tour this season in arguably the two hardest tours right now as a batsman - SA and India.
 

Zinzan

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Why do you choose to ignore Broad and Anderson? Basically because they didn't do well, right? Well, Shami did. This is arguing from the other side of the series.

For no other reason than I always expected spin was going to be the main factor in the series. Shami is one of the great improvers in recent times btw, and uses reverse swing superbly, I'm a fan of his, but it's spinners that win you test series in India.
 

indiaholic

International Captain
Disagree. Unless your spin bowlers perform outlandishly well, your fast bowlers are your best bet. Gillespie, McGrath, Akhtar, Akram, Steyn, Pollock, Anderson have all helped win games here.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Disagree. Unless your spin bowlers perform outlandishly well, your fast bowlers are your best bet. Gillespie, McGrath, Akhtar, Akram, Steyn, Pollock, Anderson have all helped win games here.
Tbf Anderson was largely playing third fiddle to Swann and Panesar.

Agreed with Zinzan to the extent that Kohli had an easier time as opposed to Root, KW, and Smith. Well, Smith vs South Africa at least.
 

indiaholic

International Captain
He bowled very well in the Udal test as well as the one in Kolkata 2012.. IIRC he outbowled the spinners in Kolkata.
 

mr_mister

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
its still a clear cut fab four FFS


can't make bold claims every time one of them has a good series and one of them has a dud one ya fickle fool

wait til one of their averages dips to 45 before declaring him out of the four
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
I'd say since 2000 South Africa and Australia won tests on the back of their pace bowlers, and Pakistan and England won tests on the back of their spinners. Obviously in each instance they were backed up by the other bowlers, but generally speaking it was Gillespie, Steyn for Saffers and Aus, and Kaneria and Panesar/Swann for Pakistan and England.
 

ImpatientLime

International Regular
its still a clear cut fab four FFS


can't make bold claims every time one of them has a good series and one of them has a dud one ya fickle fool

wait til one of their averages dips to 45 before declaring him out of the four
obviously what i posted was firmly with tongue in cheek. but root's inability to convert like kohli and smith is not a recent thing.
 

centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
England weren't that far away from winning some of the Tests!

Eg, England almost bowled India out in 50-60 overs in the last innings of 1st Test. Kohli's 49* literally saved the 1st match, and possibly the series, as going 1 down would've probably changed the whole series around. (mentally at least)

In Vizag 2nd Test, Broad's amazing spell in the 3rd innings had India reeling, despite 1st innings lead of 200. If Kohli had not backed up his 1st innings big hundred with his score of 80 odd in the 2nd innings in tough conditions with Broad on fire, India would've folded for 120 all out or something similar or worse!

Despite his runs, India were still 150 odd with 9 down, and then somehow fluked their way to 200.. to set a Target of 400. England almost batted out the remaining 2 sessions of Day 4, but unfortunately lost Cook in the last over which brought India totally back in the game and they wrapped it up on Day 5.

Even the 3rd Test was close till the 3rd day.
England 283 all out
India 200/6 rescued by the batting abilities of the spin trio.

Who can forget the decisive 4th Test where England had posted 400 in the 1st innings on a tough pitch. In reply, at one stage India were cruising 250/2, and then a hr later were 300/6 with the ball doing everything for the spinners. But then..Kohli's 235 & No.9 Jayant's century rescued the game! (India would have had to bat last on a difficult pitch, if England had held onto some catches)

England was very ordinary in India and had a very ordinary attack... Nooo! if anything it was a highly competitive series with India winning the key moments later in the games to secure wins, usually with backs against the wall

The scoreline could have easily been something like 2-2 for England.. if not for some standout performances from Kohli, Ashwin and the lower order..
 

centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
A bit of a rant lol about importance given to raw figures-

It's never about raw figures.
What matters is the context (the match situation, the pitch conditions, & the bowling) and also what "impact" your innings is having on the game

Kohli played 4 significant match-defining innings out of the 7 times he batted in the series. That was an incredible achievement and thus he was rightly man of the series.

As for Root, even a pretty 70-80 can be match defining, but it all depends when you get it..

You can score 140 on a road and have a high average for the series.. Moeen Ali..but if it's not having much impact, it's little good.

So raw figures and averages don't mean that much. It's the context that matters and the impact you are having. Best example is what Kohli does in the limited overs..can't get any better than that.. It's true dominance, incredible match winning ability.

If Kohli can keep this up, fairly soon I would have him higher than Tendukar, who in the second half of his career was mostly an accumulator who would contribute but would seldom win games like Kohli does..
 

Slifer

International Captain
There aren't any really great attacks about with the closest being RSA. Also I think India at home with Ashwin and Jedeja also comes close.

Of the batsmen mentioned, Steve Smith is ugly as hell but that sob can bat. Think he averaged 40 odd at home vs RSA including 48* out of 85. Considering the pitches and the attack, that was very impressive.

Joe Root averaging 50+ in India was also impressive.
 

OverratedSanity

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There aren't any really great attacks about with the closest being RSA. Also I think India at home with Ashwin and Jedeja also comes close.

Of the batsmen mentioned, Steve Smith is ugly as hell but that sob can bat. Think he averaged 40 odd at home vs RSA including 48* out of 85. Considering the pitches and the attack, that was very impressive.

Joe Root averaging 50+ in India was also impressive.
I think SA, Australia, Pakistan ,England at home and Ind at home are all superb attacks. Remains to be seen how many of these bowlers go on to become ATGs, so only in 10 years time can we properly judge these bowling attacks. It's much better than the mid 2000s in all honesty. Lots of very good new ball pairs and 3-4 really high quality spinners.
 

Slifer

International Captain
You are right, England at home and Australia are also very good attacks. Can't comment on Pakistan, as i havent seen that much of them.
 

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