2nd best ODI side?

[Energetic]

That's why I hate the FTP. Not everyone plays equally. You have to wait how New Zealand, England and Australia do in subcontinent conditions, and the Asian sides away from the subcontinent. England have improved no doubt. Australia are clearly not as good as they were in the world cup. They have lost 5 one-day games since the world cup. They have been unbeaten up and till winning the world cup.

 

[honestbharani]

So I was hallucinating KW striking a 6 in a nerve wracking game to beat the Aussies in the WC?

 

[Burgey]

Is it the case Australia has lost two WC games since 1999?

I know they were undefeated in 03 and 07, but did they lose a game apart from getting knocked out in 2011? Seriously can't recall

If they only lost the ko game to India in 2011 and that game in the rounds of the last WC, that's a crazy record. Would be about 26-2 or something over 16 years

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah.. they lost a few games in the 1999 WC but since then they have been unbelievable.

 

[Spark]

Is it the case Australia has lost two WC games since 1999?

I know they were undefeated in 03 and 07, but did they lose a game apart from getting knocked out in 2011? Seriously can't recall

If they only lost the ko game to India in 2011 and that game in the rounds of the last WC, that's a crazy record. Would be about 26-2 or something over 16 years

Three. Pakistan group game in 2011 as well. Actually turned out to be pivotal, because it meant an India QF when we really needed more time to build and get some gametime into Hussey, having finally settled on the right batting order and dumped White (who was batting with a stick at the time)

 

[honestbharani]

Didn;t even remember that one, possibly because of the WC structure though.

 

[Burgey]

Cheers. Wasn't sure about the 2011 round games.

 

[Spark]

Didn;t even remember that one, possibly because of the WC structure though.

It was actually a really tight game, low-scoring IIRC. Pakistan almost did a Pakistan but I think it was the Akmal brothers, of all people, who did the majority of the work in that chase.

 

[honestbharani]

Lol... did they ever manage to play the 3 Akmals in the same XI ever? Would be tough given all of them are keepers, I would have thought.

 

[Daemon]

I would've said NZ is comfortably 2nd now, but with the retirement of the 45 (20) specialist at the top of the order, I think you can remove the 'comfortably' bit.

 

[Jono]

Where's the Australia option? No team with Wade can be #1, so theyre #2.

 

[Day Man]

IMO, the WC champs deserve to be ranked #1 unless they lose consistently to any particular side or make a poor showing at the next Champions Trophy.

The official rankings for ODIs really deserve to be shelved for the couple of years after a World Cup, and only brought back for the two years after the CT that splices the WC cycle in half.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Australia should be added to the poll in light of tonight's Chappell-Hadlee series loss.

One series loss in the last 2 years does not take away number 1 spot from you.

Is it the case Australia has lost two WC games since 1999?

I know they were undefeated in 03 and 07, but did they lose a game apart from getting knocked out in 2011? Seriously can't recall

If they only lost the ko game to India in 2011 and that game in the rounds of the last WC, that's a crazy record. Would be about 26-2 or something over 16 years

Lost to Pakistan in 99
Lost to Pakistan in 11

We started the streak, and ended it too

I`m not disagreeing with you... but it does amuse me that SA are being ranked 5/6th in the rankings after we just came back from India with a 3/2 win in an ODI series. Prior to this we beat NZ at home (SA) in Aug, We did lose to Bangladesh just before that though...

What I`m trying to point out is that I don`t think there is a clear ranking system, if SA win 2 against Eng (unlikely) where does that rank both Eng and SA. All the teams seem to have some problems/weaknesses; at the start of this thread most people were ranking SA as 2nd this has subsequently changed to India (who aren't even playing atm having lost to SA and Aus in there previous 2 series) and Eng.

I have mentioned South Africa's chasing woes before as well. The reason I don't rate the SA ODI team is because their fortunes depend on the toss. The 4 teams that are ahead of them - Aus, NZ, Ind, Eng - their ability to win or lose a game does not depend as heavily on the toss.

This is also the reason South Africa don't perform in tournaments. if they lose the toss and the opposition manages even 250-260, they're out. And then people will say they choked but their chasing problems are not limited to tournaments.

The India-South Africa series that everyone talks about, had South Africa not won the toss in the 5th ODI, we could very well have had a different result.

 

[Black_Warrior]

When you assess teams, especially in the current scenario where teams so so evenly balanced for most part, you cannot just look at final series scoreline to form a conclusion. It should be part of the conversation, but other factors need to be looked at.

Australia is a clear number 1 not just because they won the World Cup and beat India 4-1. They are number 1 also because of the quality of their bench strength.
Everyone agrees that Starc is the best LO bowler in the world right? Yet you take out Starc, and Australia will still manage to about 70% of their games. You take out Warner, and you can open with Finch and Khawaja and you are not likely to see much of a difference. That's the depth of the quality in this side right now.

No other team has that. You take out Guptill and New Zealand have a serious problem now with Baz gone.
I think after Australia, New Zealand have a decent bench strength in bowling, and India have the best bench strength in batting. You take our Kohli and I still see India winning about 50 % of their games, probably more at home.

One of the reasons England has started performing well is that their depth keeps getting better. Been impressed with likes of Topkey so far.

 

[cnerd123]

I have mentioned South Africa's chasing woes before as well. The reason I don't rate the SA ODI team is because their fortunes depend on the toss. The 4 teams that are ahead of them - Aus, NZ, Ind, Eng - their ability to win or lose a game does not depend as heavily on the toss.

India are definitely way better chasing than they are defending.

 

[NZTailender]

Mate, you win the WC you're entitled to be considered number one at this stage of the next cycle. Said the same thing after India won in 2011 and Australia (I think) was being touted as number one in the rankings in 2012. The WC is IT when it comes to ODIs, **** all else matters. Australia is rightly ranked one ATM, I'd have NZ second and India third. With there not being a whole lot between them.

I mean, if Australia win the Bledisloe in 2016 (funny, I know) are they the number one side in the world when NZ won the WC eight months earlier? I would think not. You'd need to perform at a level where you're beating the WC winners for quite a while before you're considered to have rightly gone past them.

This. I think a WC win kinda gives you a pass for 18-24 months. After that you're sort of building for the next WC at which point you want to be taking series seriously. Besides, KV seems to forget the real #1 ODI bowler Mitchell Starc (I know it's Boult in the rankings but Starc is simply better. No argument) was out plus a fairly decent opener who imo is worth way more than Bailey.

I mean, really, most teams are winning their series at home in both Tests and ODIs, so things are pretty even in world cricket from #1-4/5/6 (depending on format) which is quite exciting. But I think Australia deserve the title after winning the WC and nearly winning here despite missing a few players (and yes we were missing a few too but we weren't when we lost that final).

 

[kiwiviktor81]

I reckon Starc is better than Boult in ODIs. I refer to Boult as the No. 1 bowler because that's his ranking. But if you asked who the 'best' ODI bowler was I would say Starc.

 

[Black_Warrior]

India are definitely way better chasing than they are defending.

I understand most people will say that now because of the recent series where they failed to defend 290 plus totals thrice, but if you look at overall over the last 2 years, India has defended just fine.

They defended pretty well in the World Cup, the two key games they won in the first round.
And they defended against South Africa in the two games they won.

Team records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Overall it's a pretty decent record.

If their spinners are performing, India can defend 290 plus totals against most teams, other than perhaps Australia.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

I remember the thumping the All Blacks got against the Wallabies in Sydney in 1998. 28-7 or something like that. It was such a catastrophic loss that, in hindsight, it was a portent of a period of dominance that Australia would hold over New Zealand for about 4 or 5 years.

The thumping at Eden Park in the first match of this series was similar. In that match, the traditional underdog got up, not just to beat their historical superior, but to cane them. Aussie was as completely shut out of that game as the ABs were in 1998.

Because of this precedent, I expect the Black Caps to dominate Australia over the next World Cup cycle, culminating in a NZ CWC victory in 2019. Probably few people think the Black Caps are the No. 1 team in the world, but to me if you win a World Cup and then, a year later, with half your team different, you comfortably lose an ODI series, then your claim to still be No. 1 is pretty thin. The Aussie team of today is simply not the same team that won the CWC a year ago.

That's not to claim the BCs are No. 1 necessarily. I think it's undisputed. But if the No. 1 ranking was a championship belt like boxing, the BCs would have just won it.

Probably after that we will return to mediocrity for the next 20 years. But until then it's going to be a great ride.

 

[Flem274*]

ffs shut up between you and fiery it's no wonder brisbane happened