Steve Smith vs Kane Williamson

[Zinzan]

Incidentally, If one wanted to argue the collective 'western cricketing media/fans' are quite different from the collective 'SC media/fans', then perhaps there's some truth to that. But I'd suggest it's more of a individual country thing as I can tell you from a NZ fans POV for example, the channel 9 team have rarely rated any of our cricketers. So I'm not convinced we're included in that western collective

 

[Zinzan]

Isn't that still the case though? Surely no one actually rates Root outside England just yet?

I think I have a soft-spot for Root's batting because he just makes batting look so damn easy & effortless. Time will tell of course, but I'll be very surprised is he isn't successful in all conditions (given a decent enough sample set).

 

[Gob]

Think the wickets in engurland could take turn fair bit sometimes (like oval) but in contrast wickets in the SC never really seam or have that extra bounce so I can understand peoole rating blokes who succeed in Eng/Aus/SA without playing much in the SC than the other way around. Not saying its the right way but I get the point

 

[Zinzan]

True, but my point to OS is one only notices that bias/preference for western conditions if listening/reading stuff from western cricketing media/fans. The same applies the other way around. Try going to the Pakistan passion forum (as an example), if you can bear it for 5 minutes or even cricket articles in the Indian times... and you'll see it's quite the opposite.

So even if it is a bit of a double standard, the double standard is not exclusive to the west.

 

[Contra]

Just look at Ricky Ponting... the amount of Indians I've spoken to over the years who don't rate Ponting (as much) for his lack of runs in India is really no different, and is probably fair enough.

Have you spoken to non Indian's who don't rate Ponting because of his record in India?

Also LOL@Yuvraj being overrated, the guy is a limited overs great, his world cup record is phenomenal which is vastly more important than overall career figures.

 

[Jono]

Zinzan, no way does the subcontinent media bring down players who fail in the subcontinent but succeed at home (be it an Aus/NZ/SA/Eng player) to the same levels as the opposite media. It just isn't true, and I read and follow both sets of media.

And this forum is the same. Obviously bias exists everywhere etc. etc. but overwhelmingly batsmen who score in Asian conditions but not in "western nation" conditions cop it worse than the reverse.

I am in no way saying the subcontinent cricket media is better than the others, because it obviously is not. But all things being equal, a subcontinent batsmen without a good record in Aus/NZ/SA/Eng will be treated harsher than an SA player (for eg) with a poor record in Ind and SL.

This isn't about how Tendulkar is rated higher because he's Indian compared to Lara, that's not the point. Its just this one simple point about inconsistencies with away records between Asians and non-Asian batsmen.

 

[Jono]

On Root and his away record, you only have to watch Root to know he'll succeed away from home when he plays more tests there. Bloke is an absolute jet of a batsman.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah Jono's 100% on the mark here.

 

[Contra]

On Root and his away record, you only have to watch Root to know he'll succeed away from home when he plays more tests there. Bloke is an absolute jet of a batsman.

The same could have been said for Pujara though, you never really know until it's actually done.

 

[Compton]

With Root you sort of do know.

He's a quality batsman, and he'll end his career with a stupid number of centuries scored at an astounding average all over the world.

 

[Spark]

The same could have been said for Pujara though, you never really know until it's actually done.

The same *was said for Pujara. Thought he would absolutely dominate last year, particularly after the SA tour he had.

 

[ankitj]

Zinzan, no way does the subcontinent media bring down players who fail in the subcontinent but succeed at home (be it an Aus/NZ/SA/Eng player) to the same levels as the opposite media. It just isn't true, and I read and follow both sets of media.

And this forum is the same. Obviously bias exists everywhere etc. etc. but overwhelmingly batsmen who score in Asian conditions but not in "western nation" conditions cop it worse than the reverse.

I am in no way saying the subcontinent cricket media is better than the others, because it obviously is not. But all things being equal, a subcontinent batsmen without a good record in Aus/NZ/SA/Eng will be treated harsher than an SA player (for eg) with a poor record in Ind and SL.

This isn't about how Tendulkar is rated higher because he's Indian compared to Lara, that's not the point. Its just this one simple point about inconsistencies with away records between Asians and non-Asian batsmen.

Yeah, this. Lara and Ponting don't have great records in India but their reputation is not diminished in the slightest here. On the other hand, no one forgets Sehwag's poor record outside subcontinent. In India, for someone to earn his reputation as a top tier batsman, good record in Aus, SA and Eng is a must.

 

[Contra]

Yeah, this. Lara and Ponting don't have great records in India but their reputation is not diminished in the slightest here. On the other hand, no one forgets Sehwag's poor record outside subcontinent. In India, for someone to earn his reputation as a top tier batsman, good record in Aus, SA and Eng is a must.

Lara only had 1 tour though tbf to him. It's actually kind of India's/sub content's fault the way things are, it's always us who are ultra eager to "prove" to the rest of the world that we're good and need to be acknowledged whereas in other countries as long as you gun it at home that's what mostly matters to them, at first I use to be a little frustrated but over the years I've kind of stopped giving a ****, people who don't rate Sehwag especially are hilarious with their "oh but he only averaged X runs in Y country" lmao.

 

[Zinzan]

Zinzan, no way does the subcontinent media bring down players who fail in the subcontinent but succeed at home (be it an Aus/NZ/SA/Eng player) to the same levels as the opposite media. It just isn't true, and I read and follow both sets of media.

And this forum is the same. Obviously bias exists everywhere etc. etc. but overwhelmingly batsmen who score in Asian conditions but not in "western nation" conditions cop it worse than the reverse.

I am in no way saying the subcontinent cricket media is better than the others, because it obviously is not. But all things being equal, a subcontinent batsmen without a good record in Aus/NZ/SA/Eng will be treated harsher than an SA player (for eg) with a poor record in Ind and SL.

This isn't about how Tendulkar is rated higher because he's Indian compared to Lara, that's not the point. Its just this one simple point about inconsistencies with away records between Asians and non-Asian batsmen.

Yeah, this. Lara and Ponting don't have great records in India but their reputation is not diminished in the slightest here. On the other hand, no one forgets Sehwag's poor record outside subcontinent. In India, for someone to earn his reputation as a top tier batsman, good record in Aus, SA and Eng is a must.

I can only talk from my own experience (as we all do), and I can tell you a number of Indian's I've spoken to over the years very much hold Ponting's lack of runs in India against him, so it depends who you talk to. Even on this very forum, read some of the old Tendulkar vs. Ponting vs. Lara if you're not convinced.

I can also tell you, having been to PP on rare occasions, and they (although primarily Pakistan fans) are very harsh on western players who fail in the SC as are some Indian writers I've read in the likes of the Indian times over the years.

Also, I do think the fact Tendulkar is overrated and elevated by Indian media/fan is very relevant to this argument, because it does emphasize the natural bias that I refer to. But happy to agree to disagree on this point.

We all feel persecuted by overseas media at times. Trust me, as NZ'der (having always been treated as a 3rd rate cricketing nation), I know this all too well.

 

[Burner]

I've to say though, I've never heard anyone criticise either Lara or Ponting for not scoring runs in India...

 

[Zinzan]

Ponting, not Lara.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I still honestly have no idea what Tendulkar has anything to do with this topic Zinzan.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Also, as an example, just look at this poll on PP.

The league of Tendulkar-Lara | Does any other modern era batsman belong in it? - Page 2

The overwhelming consensus is that Ponting is the only one who belongs up there with Tendulkar and Lara. Clearly his poor record in India isn't seen as a huge blemish, while Sanga's overseas record is cited numerous times as the reason for his being inferior. Bear in mind, Pakistanis rate Sanga extremely highly since he's smashed them every chance he's got. Yet they still rate Ponting higher despite his poor India record. You're just not correct on this, we know asian cricket fans... this mentality of scrutinising SC players overseas records much more than non-SC players' records in Asia is prevalent among the majority of SC cricket fans too.

 

[Contra]

Just to add to the whole Tendulkar has been overhyped line of argument, everyone should keep in mind that world cricket contains more than just the test format, any player who absolutely dominates all formats (mostly ODI's and Tests during Tendulkar's career specifically) is going to remain in the public eye for that much longer and so will invariably get more praise/attention. Tendulkar is well above both Lara and Ponting when it comes to limited overs cricket, and that too for a longer time period, in fact he's well just about all his peers lol, so naturally he's going to get more hype.

This isn't just restricted to Tendulkar btw, ABD is also hyped that much more because he's a freak in all formats.

 

[Zinzan]

I still honestly have no idea what Tendulkar has anything to do with this topic Zinzan.

I've done my best to explain that a couple of times now, if you still don't get it, I don't think you will.