New Zealand A Tour of India and Sri Lanka

[straw man]

Other than Devcich in the four-day team, and obviously him being captain too there's logical explanations for all of those.

Latham's in both the ODI and test squads which kind of nullifies any argument that there's bias against him. It's not as if he's got a spectacular record in either of the FC/OD formats.

Devcich not bowling Astle much in this game? You have five other bowling options in the team, including two recent test bowlers and three guys close to selection. It makes sense to give them a bigger workload, especially after the decision to take Sodhi to Bangladesh. Development and preparation-wise, he's simply the sixth most important bowler in that team now. Your sixth bowler generally won't get through many overs when the opposition team has been bowled out for just 250 either.

I doubt Astle's performances were "clearly" better or that those two games were the only factor involved in the decision anyway. People say Astle's been hard done by here, but at the end of the day he was outperformed by Sodhi in the Plunket Shield last season, has less potential as a bowler, and happens to be six years older. He was always going to have to do a bit more on this tour to be selected. Cricket Records | Records | New Zealand A tour of India and Sri Lanka, Aug-Oct 2013 | First-class matches | Batting and bowling averages | ESPN Cricinfo The difference there is just not enough to ignore those other factors.

If there was such favouristism towards ND to the extent that some of you guys have been claiming, we'd be seeing the name "BJ Watling" in the ODI squad.

Sure, there might be some cricket-based reasons for some of those decisions, even if imo they're not great ones (Latham should have been rested for an ODI instead. Astle given 3 overs on a pitch apparently offering turn and bounce while seamers bowl 67, even if some are going to Bangladesh soon), or there might not. I don't think it's wrong for people to line things up and detect a whiff of favouritism from what we see in the NZ A team (not necessarily the NZ team), though yes more evidence would be required before you could say that it clearly smells bad.

At this point I should refer back to the point Immenso (from memory) made earlier that although I'm nitpicking, I still think it's great that this A tour is happening and I am also looking forward to seeing how Sodhi goes for NZ.

 

[Kippax]

Watling's far from the archetypal ND guy, really. Just as the really callow and heartfelt Sodhi won't prove to be either, for that matter.

I love star gazing. Still i find it magical that i see the same stars and patterns as i do on the complete other side of this amazing world
@__________
sorry mate but what the hell is this?
@__________
maaaaate. Awfully brilliant chat

Can Sodhi fill the Vettori gap? | Cricket Articles, Analysis & Opinions | Wisden India

While Sodhi is quicker through the air, Astle’s effectiveness lies in his flight. The tracks for the two games against India in Visakhapatnam were anything but conducive for bowling. As a result, both Sodhi and Astle bowled long spells in the oppressive heat, waiting for the pitch to break up at some point, but that never really happened.

How did the selectors arrive at the decision to pick Sodhi for the tour of Bangladesh then? Astle, the more experienced of the two, clearly outbowled Sodhi in the two matches, picking up five wickets to Sodhi’s two. Away from the scoreboard too, Astle impressed more, creating opportunities even though wickets were hard to come by.

@captainshanky 30 Aug
@CricSim Astle has bowled really well in patches. Sodhi on the shorter side so far.

 

[Mike5181]

Quoting a twitter post from him about star gazing? Well that's me convinced.

 

[Kippax]

Convinced of what?

 

[Mike5181]

Convinced of what?

Convinced that the ND clique isn't into star gazing, and once they discover Sodhi has a love for it, he'll be disowned and consequently left out of future international tours.

 

[Kippax]

Convinced that the ND clique isn't into star gazing, and once they discover Sodhi has a love for it, he'll be disowned and consequently left out of future international tours.

Personality friction absolutely matters. That's why our best bat was crying into a phone live on radio last December. You should read the chapters in Crowe's book or listen to his radio interviews about how being a bit too callow in all the teams he was thrown into set his development back.

 

[hendrix]

Convinced that the ND clique isn't into star gazing, and once they discover Sodhi has a love for it, he'll be disowned and consequently left out of future international tours.

The point regarding Watling is that playing for ND doesn't necessarily make him a Bradburn favourite.

As for the Sodhi selection, we've harped on about it for a wee bit but there has been not a single performance, domestic or A-tour which has demanded selection. Yes, he performed better than Astle last season, but averages of 45 vs 55 indicate that the question should be "Should we really take a second spinner?" not "Should we drop the incumbent for another spinner who also hasn't performed?"

If the argument is that personality hasn't effected selection, why is the best performing domestic spinner for the last few years (Nethula) being ignored?

 

[Mike5181]

Personality friction absolutely matters. That's why our best bat was crying into a phone live on radio last December. You should read the chapters in Crowe's book or listen to his radio interviews about how being a bit too callow in all the teams he was thrown into set his development back.

Of course personality friction matters, but you and your star gazing twitter posts shouldn't be taken as gospel on who is getting along with each other, or who will eventually fall out with each other. As far as I know, you don't know any of the people we're talking about. You're basically just creating, as far as we know, fictional situations when it suits you where everyone is plotting against players you think should/shouldn't have been selected. Something that conveniently requires something as colossal as the Taylor/Hesson/McCullum captaincy fiasco to be confirmed. I'd much prefer to use verifiable cricketing reasons where possible, and other than Devcich in the four-day team, there's justifiable reasons for all of the decisions that have been made in recent times.

 

[Mike5181]

The point regarding Watling is that playing for ND doesn't necessarily make him a Bradburn favourite.

As for the Sodhi selection, we've harped on about it for a wee bit but there has been not a single performance, domestic or A-tour which has demanded selection. Yes, he performed better than Astle last season, but averages of 45 vs 55 indicate that the question should be "Should we really take a second spinner?" not "Should we drop the incumbent for another spinner who also hasn't performed?"

If the argument is that personality hasn't effected selection, why is the best performing domestic spinner for the last few years (Nethula) being ignored?

And how do you know this? Do you know any of them personally?

I'm not arguing against this point. I tend to agree with you here. If Milne or Henry had been included instead of Sodhi, I wouldn't have been disappointed at all. I've said it before, our second spinner shouldn't play the second test if Martin's been smashed around. Sodhi's there to play in favourable circumstances. That being said, the likelihood of us requiring more than one of Bracewell/Gillespie and Anderson is slim in a two test series so I'm quite happy having Sodhi in there to give us a decent chance of eradicating that "can't play our second spinner" attitude some time in the near future.

The fact that Sodhi is ten years younger, and the difference in their performances last season (42 vs 44) was marginal probably had something to do with it.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah the ND conspiracy is good for a laugh, especially to poke fun at Howsie and Leslie1, but lets not get all tinfoil hat about it. I don't think the domestic side Sodhi plays for has much to do at all with his selection when you look at the other factors.

 

[straw man]

A small band of wanderers make their way through the countryside. It is the quiet season and they are hungry. Ahead on the path, barely visible in the fading light, they spy a copse. Suddenly there is motion amongst the trees, a flash of colour, a sound, a glimpse of something moving behind the scrub.

Kippax and Flem: It's a duck

straw man: It does appear to have some characteristics of a duck

Mike5181: Might have been a dog

 

[Kippax]

No I'm not suggesting anyone's plotting against Sodhi at all ftr, any more than Otago gives Duffy his parody hazing. I get the feeling Sodhi can identify with both sides of the gentleman/hard **** coin perhaps a little bit better than Crowe or Taylor, he actually jokes about having a split personality like that. We'll see.

.

 

[hendrix]

And how do you know this? Do you know any of them personally?

No, I don't. Like you, I'm skeptical that there's much favouritism going on. I tend to think it's more incompetence.

I disagree that there's justifiable reasons for all of the selection and team composition decisions in recent times. The selection or non-selections of Watling, Ronchi, Astle, Sodhi, Flynn, Raval, Nethula, Ellis, Devcich in the A or senior side have not made any sense to me.

While the selection players like Munro are disliked for non-tangible reasons, and weird team composition is justifiable in an A-team, there are some pretty strong, objective reasons to disagree with the above players' inclusion or non-inclusion.

 

[straw man]

In other news, NZ A are 132/1 with Cachopa 66* and Mitchell batting at 3 on 22*

/icanreadscorecards

It's been a fairly good tour for Cachopa so far though hasn't managed a hundred yet.

 

[Kippax]

Yeah the ND conspiracy is good for a laugh, especially to poke fun at Howsie and Leslie1, but lets not get all tinfoil hat about it. I don't think the domestic side Sodhi plays for has much to do at all with his selection when you look at the other factors.

What did you think of Bradburn's comment that this is a very well-balanced side that's touring? Do you think he misspoke twice and actually meant balanced attack, or do you think he's maybe read his local paper for decades and has been supping on "cricket knowledge" Kool-Aid of this ilk?

Cricket | Joseph Yovich Stakes Claim For Test Call-up... | Stuff.co.nz

Could a 35-year-old former tearaway fast bowler make a test debut as an opening bat for New Zealand in South Africa?

When most domestic cricketers have long given the game away by that age, Northern Districts veteran Joseph Yovich has shown all the necessary attributes of a test opener for the defending Plunket Shield champions over the past year.

 

[Bahnz]

Chops enjoying the low bounce and lack of pace atm. It's a pity that so much of this match has been lost to bad weather, as NZA would be in a great position to push for a win otherwise.

 

[Kippax]

Low bounce and lack of pace was far from what I read in the day 2 report, haha.

 

[Prince EWS]

What did you think of Bradburn's comment that this is a very well-balanced side that's touring? Do you think he misspoke twice and actually meant balanced attack, or do you think he's maybe read his local paper for decades and has been supping on "cricket knowledge" Kool-Aid of this ilk?

"Very well balanced" has been management speak for "lots of allrounders" around cricket for as long as I can remember. The team playing in this game has six frontline bowlers and bats to nine; that's always the sort of side that management will call well balanced.

 

[Mike5181]

What does everyone think of Daryl Mitchell anyway? I've only seen him bat a couple of times, and don't know much about him.

Found a bunch of his old stats:

Record for Scarborough:
Weet-Bix MyCricket: Sydney Grade Cricket

Record for WA:
Weet-Bix MyCricket: Sydney Grade Cricket

Mitchell has credited his Perth-based batting coach and mentor Neil "Noddy" Holder - who used to coach Australian test star Justin Langer - for the development of his game.

 

[Kippax]

"Very well balanced" has been management speak for "lots of allrounders" around cricket for as long as I can remember. The team playing in this game has six frontline bowlers and bats to nine; that's always the sort of side that management will call well balanced.

Nope, ND has always refused to acknowledge that openers are anything more than a speculative longshot bet at the races. That's the reason.