Round table revisited, Lara the best batsmen of modern era

[wfdu_ben91]

What is the average of lara in India, NZ and Australia?

Average of flat track bully hayden outside Australia?42

Hayden was a flat track bully at best. What is his average in SL,Eng,Nz

If Sehwag's had've toured Australia when McGrath was playing then I highly doubt Sehwag would've averaged more or even close to then what Lara did.

Hayden's average in NZ and SA is twice as much as Sehwag's is and he averaged 47 against Murali in Sri Lanka. Hayden wasn't the greatest in bowler friendly conditions, but he has proven to be far superior in bowler-friendly conditions then what Sehwag has thus far.

 

[Ikki]

I retract from my comments earlier. However, Lara's batting looks fairly ugly compared to Ponting and Tendulkar. His technique was very loose and dangly and he'd get himself into a very awkward position to play particular shots at times.

I'm suprised so many people say Lara was so graceful in his shot-making, because he was far from it. His batting in essence was Phillip Hughes ugly, but of course Lara could play all the shots. He did know how to dominate an attack when he got going though.

It's subjective. On the contrary, I found Lara the best to watch...and the most frustratingly good.

 

[satyam]

If Sehwag's had've toured Australia when McGrath was playing then I highly doubt Sehwag would've averaged more or even close to then what Lara did.

Hayden's average in NZ and SA is twice as much as Sehwag's is and he averaged 47 against Murali in Sri Lanka. Hayden wasn't the greatest in bowler friendly conditions, but he has proven to be far superior in bowler-friendly conditions then what Sehwag has thus far.

Sehwag faced Mcgrath once in Australia. And he was treated with negative bowling. Yet he scored 76 of 83 (More than lara in entire match). Supertest Australia vs World Xi

Average of ponting on the flat wickets of India?20

Duminy averages 61 in Aus and 5 in India.

Sehwag is a much better player than hayden. Both of spin and fast bowling.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Sehwag faced Mcgrath once in Australia. And he was treated with negative bowling. Yet he scored 76 of 83 (More than lara in entire match). Supertest Australia vs World Xi

Average of ponting on the flat wickets of India?20

Duminy averages 61 in Aus and 5 in India.

Sehwag is a much better player than hayden. Both of spin and fast bowling.

Yeah, Sehwag smashed Lee and Watson (who was nowhere near Test quality bowler at that time). What happened in the 2nd inns?

Hayden's average inside the subcontient: 50
Hayden's average outside the subcontient: 50

Sehwag's average inside the subcontient: 60
Sehwag's average outside the subcontient: 40

Hayden's average in SA & NZ: 31
Sehwag's average in SA & NZ: 15

Hayden is a far superior allround batsman then Sehwag. Even post retirement, Hayden is still outshining Sehwag.

 

[satyam]

Yeah, Sehwag smashed Lee and Watson (who was nowhere near Test quality bowler at that time). What happened in the 2nd inns?

Hayden's average inside the subcontient: 50
Hayden's average outside the subcontient: 50

Sehwag's average inside the subcontient: 60
Sehwag's average outside the subcontient: 40

Hayden's average in SA & NZ: 31
Sehwag's average in SA & NZ: 15

Hayden is a far superior allround batsman then Sehwag. Even post retirement, Hayden is still outshining Sehwag.

And lara couldn't smash them too.

What is the average of hayden in WI?
Average of hayden outside Aus?42

Both have similar record in IPL 3 but sehwag has a higher strike rate,
Cricket Records | Indian Premier League, 2009/10 | Records | Most runs | Cricinfo.com

What is this subcontinent business? There are 3 cricket nations in it.

Hayden could never match the dominance of sehwag and was a poor player of fast bowling as he struggled in Ashes and cost Australia the series.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

And lara couldn't smash them too.

What is the average of hayden in WI?
Average of hayden outside Aus?42

Both have similar record in IPL 3 but sehwag has a higher strike rate,
Cricket Records | Indian Premier League, 2009/10 | Records | Most runs | Cricinfo.com

What is this subcontinent business? There are 3 cricket nations in it.

Hayden could never match the dominance of sehwag and was a poor player of fast bowling as he struggled in Ashes and cost Australia the series.

Hayden couldn't play fast bowling? That's why he averaged twice as much as a top-order batsman in bowler-friendly conditions then what Sehwag does. During the time Sehwag has been playing, Hayden averaged 49 in South Africa, compared to Sehwag, who has an opener only averages 9.33 in South Africa. Even Glenn McGrath would be dissappointed with those sort of stats.

Sehwag plays the majority of his cricket in the subcontient, where pitches haven't offered much to seam bowling, only spin bowling. This plays into Sehwag's favour because he opens the batting in dead conditions for pacemen and then has 40 odd runs + his eye-in when the spinners come on, which makes it considerably easier for him compared to middle-order, who have to come in, with no runs to their name. Outside the subcontient it's not that easy and hence why the difference between his average in the subcontient and outside the subcontient is so different.

 

[Ikki]

After watching Chappelli speak I have to agree with him. Maybe it's an Aussie thing, but I also agree: the players you worry about were the ones that could change the game in a relatively small window of time. It's probably why I rate Sehwag higher than most and have been doing so before the recent love-in with him on CW. It's why I rate the Warnes, Vivs and Lillees. Maybe not uber-all in terms of stats, but the affect that they had on games was real and noticeable. In a game that takes days to play, to have that kind of effect is truly special.

 

[satyam]

Hayden couldn't play fast bowling? That's why he averaged twice as much as a top-order batsman in bowler-friendly conditions then what Sehwag does. During the time Sehwag has been playing, Hayden averaged 49 in South Africa, compared to Sehwag, who has an opener only averages 9.33 in South Africa. Even Glenn McGrath would be dissappointed with those sort of stats.

Sehwag plays the majority of his cricket in the subcontient, where pitches haven't offered much to seam bowling, only spin bowling. This plays into Sehwag's favour because he opens the batting in dead conditions for pacemen and then has 40 odd runs + his eye-in when the spinners come on, which makes it considerably easier for him compared to middle-order, who have to come in, with no runs to their name. Outside the subcontient it's not that easy and hence why the difference between his average in the subcontient and outside the subcontient is so different.

Average of graeme smith in India?
Average of Justin langer in India?
Average of Miachel slater in India?
Average of punter in India?

You do come up with funny execuse.

 

[mohammad16]

People forget that apart from his 400 that Lara usually scored at a fairly good clip when it mattered.

Provided he wasnt dealing with an early order typical west indian collapse, Lara would play his natural free flowing game that would totally dominate the opposing bowlers at ODI like strike rates.

That is what is so great about Lara, not only was he an accumulator but also could dominate attacks, counter attack even in tough conditions and take over the game. It is just a pity that the batsmen around him never took advantage of the opportunities.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Average of graeme smith in India?
Average of Justin langer in India?
Average of Miachel slater in India?
Average of punter in India?

You do come up with funny execuse.

Exactly. Players who found it easy against pace bowling in the subcontient but had trouble against the spinners. Obviously lesser players against spin then Sehwag, because they weren't brought up on dustbowls. Much similar to how they are all superior players of pace bowling because Sehwag was brought up on dead wickets for seamers.

Ikki, Sehwag can change a game if the conditions are favourable for batsman, but if there is something in the pitch then he is more then less a walking wicket, because he bats like he has cement in his shoes.

 

[satyam]

Yes lara could dominate attacks as it was visible by his batting against India,in Newzealand,
Donald,bond,wasim waqar ,in Aus. He could score at odi rate on flat tracks , mediocre bowling and dead rubber games.

 

[satyam]

Exactly. Players who found it easy against pace bowling in the subcontient but had trouble against the spinners. Obviously lesser players against spin then Sehwag, because they weren't brought up on dustbowls. Much similar to how they are all superior players of pace bowling because Sehwag was brought up on dead wickets for seamers.

Ikki, Sehwag can change a game if the conditions are favourable for batsman, but if there is something in the pitch then he is more then less a walking wicket, because he bats like he has cement in his shoes.

Some pretty good name are there in this list

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

You will see many Aussies here also. And btw i saw how much Punter dominated Ishant sharma.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Some pretty good name are there in this list

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

You will see many Aussies here also. And btw i saw how much Punter dominated Ishant sharma.

Read what I actually said in what you quoted me. That stat just proves my point.

 

[satyam]

Read what I actually said in what you quoted me. That stat just proves my point.

Ok since indian wickets are dead. So you agree punter and lara are mediocre players that they couldn't even score on flat wickets.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Ok since indian wickets are dead. So you agree punter and lara are mediocre players that they couldn't even score on flat wickets.

No, scoring runs on bowler-friendly wickets rates over scoring runs on flat wickets. In that case, Sehwag isn't in the same class because he can't score runs on bowler-friendly wickets but both Ponting and Lara could.

 

[satyam]

No, scoring runs on bowler-friendly wickets rates over scoring runs on flat wickets. In that case, Sehwag isn't in the same class because he can't score runs on bowler-friendly wickets but both Ponting and Lara could.

Yes we know how bowler friendly the wickets of Aus and WI are.

There is a reason why sachin,sehwag,laxman,dravid,gavaskar,mohinder amarnath,sandeep patil scored more in Australia than India. Australian wickets are flattest in this world next only to WI .

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Yes we know how bowler friendly the wickets of Aus and WI are.

There is a reason why sachin,sehwag,laxman,dravid,gavaskar,mohinder amarnath,sandeep patil scored more in Australia than India. Australian wickets are flattest in this world next only to WI .

Nope, subcontient wickets are the flattest, that's why batsman like Jayawardene, Samaraweera, Younis Khan, Mohammad Yousuf, etc average 50+. Playing on pitches where there is absolutely nothing in it for the seamers tends to do that.

All of those players you mentioned scored runs during 2003/04, when Australia's attack was in absence of McGrath & Warne, Gillespie was carrying an injury and we played farscial Test bowlers like Brad Williams and Nathan Bracken, where Sehwag, Tendulkar and Dravid scored heavily. Dravid was made to look very ordinary in his other tours of Australia and Sehwag made 1 big score on easily the flattest pitch in Australia.

Remember the 2008 Boxing Day Test? Bit in the pitch then. Hayden got man of the match, scored a ton and the Indian batting lineup was made to look like a bunch of muppets, getting rolled twice. Laxman getting bounced out and all. And Sehwag wasn't even good enough to get a game.

 

[vcs]

Nope, subcontient wickets are the flattest, that's why batsman like Jayawardene, Samaraweera, Younis Khan, Mohammad Yousuf, etc average 50+. Playing on pitches where there is absolutely nothing in it for the seamers tends to do that.

All of those players you mentioned scored runs during 2003/04, when Australia's attack was in absence of McGrath & Warne, Gillespie was carrying an injury and we played farscial Test bowlers like Brad Williams and Nathan Bracken, where Sehwag, Tendulkar and Dravid scored heavily. Dravid was made to look very ordinary in his other tours of Australia and Sehwag made 1 big score on easily the flattest pitch in Australia.

Remember the 2008 Boxing Day Test? Bit in the pitch then. Hayden got man of the match, scored a ton and the Indian batting lineup was made to look like a bunch of muppets, getting rolled twice. Laxman getting bounced out and all. And Sehwag wasn't even good enough to get a game.

Sachin has scored heavily and consistently on every tour of Australia bar the one in 2003-04 where he was horribly out of form and "padded" his figures with 300 gritty runs in Sydney. Regardless of Australia's bowling, you have to be a damn good batsman to grind out 300 runs when you are woefully out of form.

Dravid's average doesn't do justice to how important he was to India in the 2007-08 series, he topscored in the Perth Test and contributed another 50 as well.

About Laxman, haha, if you are an Aussie fan and don't rate him against Australia regardless of attack/conditions, I don't know what else to say to you.

And Sehwag got a third innings 150 odd in Adelaide when the game lay in the balance. But maybe that was a flat track as well.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Sehwag... wasn't he Jason Krezja's first Test wicket?

 

[Athlai]

Sehwag... wasn't he Jason Krezja's first Test wicket?

If so he should be judged pretty harshly upon it IMO.