Asif vs Steyn

[Richard]

But is that a problem when you have such an astonishing strike rate? It is the analogy of a bowler who is about 10mph quicker than the level he is playing (youth cricket or low level club cricket) - he'll go for runs bowling half volleys, trying to bowl batsmen, but he'll end up with a superb strike rate and strong average and when it is all said and done, you cannot complain whilst he is doing that.

I've been at paints to point-out, often (in fact I did in the post you quoted) that I believe Steyn is best-served by using the methods which he has always used. It's a method that cannot make him one of the very best ever seen in my view, but certainly the method that maximises his own calibre.

 

[gwo]

It's perfectly possible he didn't even know he was taking them. The fact is no-one will ever know, except Asif himself, whether the things were taken deliberately or not.

If the substance is not taken deliberately there can be no motive or reason.

You can't plead ignorance in a court of law. Taking drugs simply because you didn't know they weren't makes you guilty of being ignorant (but I guess you being in blissful ignorance wouldn't know).

 

[Richard]

As I've said you're very ignorant in just about all matters concerning me and I'm well aware that you can't plead ignorance in any court. Once the rules are set you're bound to abide by them. Nonetheless, if the question is one of motive the matter of guilt is completely irrelevant. And also if the question is was someone's performance enhanced because they were caught with performance-enhancing drugs in their system the only answer can be "possibly". It can never be a certain yes or no.

 

[Uppercut]

You can't plead ignorance in a court of law. Taking drugs simply because you didn't know they weren't makes you guilty of being ignorant (but I guess you being in blissful ignorance wouldn't know).

But we're not in a court of law, we're on an internet forum, and there's no point refusing to acknowledge the possibility that Asif was ignorant.

 

[Streetwise]

But we're not in a court of law, we're on an internet forum, and there's no point refusing to acknowledge the possibility that Asif was ignorant.

He has twice tested positive to PED's, he was caught with hashish in his wallet.

Yeah the guy probably didnt even know.

 

[Xuhaib]

I'd rate just the one above Asif. I remain unconvinced that he has lost any 'zip' until he stops taking wickets at a good rate.

Strangely it was the odi's against Aus which convinced me he's slowly regaining his 2006-2007 mojo unfortunatley odi's is not his main forte so was unable to deliver those knockout performances.

 

[thierry henry]

Hmm, I saw Asif in the flesh last week doing some net bowling. He's pretty damn tall...

6'2" IS tall. Compared to other players that height looks about right.

 

[gwo]

As I've said you're very ignorant in just about all matters concerning me and I'm well aware that you can't plead ignorance in any court. Once the rules are set you're bound to abide by them. Nonetheless, if the question is one of motive the matter of guilt is completely irrelevant. And also if the question is was someone's performance enhanced because they were caught with performance-enhancing drugs in their system the only answer can be "possibly". It can never be a certain yes or no.

If you are well aware, then I'm sure so is everybody else that there are possibilities that his motives were purely good (just like Shane Warne right?).

Stop being a kent, stop pointing out the obvious and play the discussion at hand. Talking about the hypothetical is NEVER really relevant, just like FCA.

 

[Richard]

If talking about hypotheticals was never relevant, there'd not be a great deal to talk about.

 

[Faisal1985]

He has twice tested positive to PED's, he was caught with hashish in his wallet.

Yeah the guy probably didnt even know.

Is Hashish = Steroids or whatever was found in his system..

I would imagine Hashish makes your judgment blurry and reduced.....

 

[Faisal1985]

Strangely it was the odi's against Aus which convinced me he's slowly regaining his 2006-2007 mojo unfortunatley odi's is not his main forte so was unable to deliver those knockout performances.

The 2 wickets he took in one over during CT against Australia was enough for me to say....."he still has it".....especially the one coming back in to White..

 

[The_roc]

But we're not in a court of law, we're on an internet forum, and there's no point refusing to acknowledge the possibility that Asif was ignorant.

Ignorance of the rules is no excuse. Next thing you will be saying that Afridi didn't realise that biting the ball was wrong.

From my perspective Asif needs to take 200 wickets before a meaningful comparison can be made. Given the choice I would always go for Steyn in my team rather that the junkie.

 

[HMas]

Ignorance of the rules is no excuse. Next thing you will be saying that Afridi didn't realise that biting the ball was wrong.

Getting positive in drug tests and then blaming it on pain killers is no excuse either.

 

[Richard]

Ignorance of the rules is no excuse. Next thing you will be saying that Afridi didn't realise that biting the ball was wrong.

No-one's saying it is an excuse. All that is being said is that the suggestion that Asif was unequivocally deliberately taking banned substances is ludicrous.

 

[Richard]

Getting positive in drug tests and then blaming it on pain killers is no excuse either.

No-one's done that.

 

[HMas]

No-one's done that.

Steyn has done it

 

[Streetwise]

No-one's saying it is an excuse. All that is being said is that the suggestion that Asif was unequivocally deliberately taking banned substances is ludicrous.

And no one is saying Asif was unequivocally deliberately taking banned substances, all that was said was he took them to gain an unfair advantage.

You cant even say he tested positive really, there could of been a sample mix-up, or the tester misread the data or there was a typo in his report. Both times.

 

[Black_Warrior]

This whole talk about who took what is seriously annoying. If people think Asif/Steyn are averaging 23 courtesy of the drugs they took, all I can say is good for you..No need to come here and ruin an interesting discussion about two of the best fast bowlers at the moment.

 

[morgieb]

T'was a joke. I still think Steyn > Asif, but it isn't as obvious as it should be. Also forgetting that Asif plays on flatter pitches than Steyn.

 

[TT Boy]

T'was a joke. I still think Steyn > Asif, but it isn't as obvious as it should be. Also forgetting that Asif plays on flatter pitches than Steyn.

But he doesn't. Asif has only played four tests at home (no tests in India) and averages over 40 in Pakistan. Averages over 95 at home against South Africa and in that series he could hardly be less interested. Home series in England or South Africa are the best thing for Asif's career.