Ricky Ponting - most wins as player and captain

[Rant0r]

Warne's dominance is massively over-rated . Warne was more skillful and entertaining but got dominated by pretty much most great batsmen of his era, Ricky OTOH has dominated bowlers including the best ones.

For my money I Put Ricky a better cricketer than Warne.

McGrath was more valuable than Warne

 

[Matt79]

Warne's dominance is massively over-rated . Warne was more skillful and entertaining but got dominated by pretty much most great batsmen of his era, Ricky OTOH has dominated bowlers including the best ones.

For my money I Put Ricky a better cricketer than Warne.

Yet, he was until yesterday the record holder for the number of wins as a player, and his career coincided exactly with Australia's dominant period. During his career, only McGrath could be considered a more dominant player.

The relevance of the undoubted thrashing Tendulkar gave Warne to his overall career is massively overstated IMO.

 

[Matt79]

Cheers Matt, my foruming has fallen to pieces due to this stress now :~(

Now you know how Johnson felt...

 

[Rant0r]

But not unimportant. Probably more important than Warne's hold over Daryl Cullinan, who it seems makes just as good a commentator as a crickter.

 

[Rant0r]

Now you know how Johnson felt...

I'm slinging this incrediball at the monitor but I keep missing. *sigh*

 

[Sanz]

The relevance of the undoubted thrashing Tendulkar gave Warne to his overall career is massively overstated IMO.

Why only Tendulkar ? It was pretty much every Indian Batsman anywhere in the world.

 

[Sanz]

Yet, he was until yesterday the record holder for the number of wins as a player, and his career coincided exactly with Australia's dominant period. During his career, only McGrath could be considered a more dominant player.

Apart from Mcgrath, Steve Waugh, Ricky Ponting, Adam Gilchrist also come to mind.

 

[stephen]

But not unimportant. Probably more important than Warne's hold over Daryl Cullinan, who it seems makes just as good a commentator as a crickter.

Cullinan may well have been regarded as an all time great batsman had it not been for Warne. Even with the humiliation Warne dealt out, Cullinan averaged around 45, which is on the high end for 90s batsmen.

 

[Sanz]

McGrath was more valuable than Warne

Easily.

 

[Rant0r]

Cullinan may well have been regarded as an all time great batsman had it not been for Warne. Even with the humiliation Warne dealt out, Cullinan averaged around 45, which is on the high end for 90s batsmen.

True, but my point was it's slightly comparable to Warne failing in India, he took wickets everywhere else but there.

 

[Ikki]

Why only Tendulkar ? It was pretty much every Indian Batsman anywhere in the world.

And Kiwi/S.African batsmen had it over McGrath in Australia. At least Warne had an excuse; he was injured throughout the period in question and was playing against the best players of spin at their home or mostly on pitches that weren't conducive to spin bowling - Australia.

As a player; meaning leader, bowler, fielder and often handy bat...Warne was the most important player during our dominant era, then probably McGrath and then Ponting/Waugh.

 

[Rant0r]

That's a pretty poor excuse actually, we're talking about a player some consider to be the greatest modern era wrist spinner, yet he was unable to take wickets against the best players of spin in the world, isn't that the greatest test ? McGrath still took wickets against all comers, in all conditions.

 

[Ikki]

That's a pretty poor excuse actually, we're talking about a player some consider to be the greatest modern era wrist spinner, yet he was unable to take wickets against the best players of spin in the world, isn't that the greatest test ? McGrath still took wickets against all comers, in all conditions.

He had at least 2 career-threatening injuries in those 3 years. He had to practically learn to bowl all over again. I think that's a pretty damn good one as far as excuses go.

And McGrath taking wickets against everyone everywhere is tripe. I just mentioned two such instances.

 

[Rant0r]

He averages 25 against the Kiwis and 27 against the Saffies. Yes that's above his career average, but it's well below what Brett Lee for example has done against pretty much anyone.

Had to learn to bowl again ? please, he pumped his body full of drugs and was back in no time. Looking fit and smart these days too I see, plenty of lasting effetcs of those 'career threatening injuries' there, played well into his late 30's.

 

[Ikki]

He averages 25 against the Kiwis and 27 against the Saffies. Yes that's above his career average, but it's well below what Brett Lee for example has done against pretty much anyone.

Check again. He averages above 30 and strikes at about 80 vs those teams in Australia. That is not doing well everywhere against everyone, is it?

Had to learn to bowl again ? please, he pumped his body full of drugs and was back in no time. Looking fit and smart these days too I see, plenty of lasting effetcs of those 'career threatening injuries' there, played well into his late 30's.

So he was taking drugs all the way back since 99? The drug allegations came in 2003. You've just shown your true colours there.

 

[Rant0r]

My point, fool, is that if his injuries were so career threatening then how did he manage to play until he was 38 ? He came back in 2003 looking like Superman ahead of time then suddenly he was pinged for using a Steroid concealant.

And I said he averages 25 and 27 against them, sorry I didn't go into intimate detail about home and/or away, should I check now ? Even though that record is probably still better than most of his contemporaries.

 

[Ikki]

My point, fool, is that if his injuries were so career threatening then how did he manage to play until he was 38 ? He came back in 2003 looking like Superman ahead of time then suddenly he was pinged for using a Steroid concealant.

He had surgery and learned to bowl again, sunshine. But in that period he not only got beat by India, he was beat worse by New Zealand and WIndies. After his shoulder and finger injury Warne said that he had lost muscle memory and had to essentially learn to bowl again.

And I said he averages 25 and 27 against them, sorry I didn't go into intimate detail about home and/or away, should I check now ? Even though that record is probably still better than most of his contemporaries.

His record against them is averaging in the 30s and striking in the 70s-80s at home. That's not better than his contemporaries and is poor for a fast bowler of his caliber; especially against a side like NZ; S.Africa is a bit more understandable.

Something also interesting, I was looking up how many times McGrath and Warne averaged above 30 for a series. Warne did 14 times, McGrath did 11 times. Yet I think proportionately that would mean Warne was ahead because he played 21 more test matches than McGrath. And considering a chunk of those above-30 series comes in the said injury period, it just shows how consistent Warne was.

In fact, apart from India there are only 2 real blemishes on Warne's record and even when you look into it more deeply you see even they hide some truth. Warne's away figures against WIndies are not good, yet he only ever had 1 bad series against them home or away. And the one bad series come against them in the period where he was pretty much getting battered by everyone; his other series he was superb when WIndies were even better in 95. And against Sri Lanka at home where he had just 1 very poor test which disfigures his stats as he was generally good against them everywhere. Other than that, he has good figures everywhere. Even in this decade where people talk about flat tracks and how hard wicket taking is, Warne has been as good, if not better, than McGrath in striking for wickets, and as a spinner that is unbelievable.

 

[Rant0r]

I've stopped reading your dribble pal, you've completely missed the point and now your nitpicking over fine statistics from single matches over a 16 year period, head over to the final word thread mmmmk ?

 

[Ikki]

Fine statistics? McGrath played almost 20 tests against NZ and S.Africa at home IIRC. I'm glad I lost you though .

 

[Rant0r]

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/45278-finally-last-word-thread.html