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The Road to the 2009 Ashes

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Number 3 issue you say?

1 Andrew Strauss
2 Alastair Cook
3 Matthew Prior
4 Kevin Peitersen
5 Paul Collingwood
6 Andrew Flintoff
7 James Foster
8 Stuart Broad
9 Graeme Swann
10 Ryan Sidebottom
11 James Anderson
Nah. Prior may have batted well, mostly against unchallenging seam-bowling, but throwing him up to three for the most crucial Test series of them all to face the likes of Clark and Johnson would be crazy.

BTW Flintoff at six is just such a nono. I'd have Foster ahead of him if they were both in the same side, and that's the Honest To Goodness truth.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Prior has a brilliant technique
That's over-egging it. He may have an excellent technique against the spinners and some sound base against the seamers but I've seen him look pedestrian against capable seam-and-swing merchants on more than one occasion. He's simply too drive-happy. And I really don't like his chances against Clark and Johnson.
 
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four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
Nah. Prior may have batted well, mostly against unchallenging seam-bowling, but throwing him up to three for the most crucial Test series of them all to face the likes of Clark and Johnson would be crazy.

BTW Flintoff at six is just such a nono. I'd have Foster ahead of him if they were both in the same side, and that's the Honest To Goodness truth.
Yeah, that was kind of what I was trying to say.
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
Nah. Prior may have batted well, mostly against unchallenging seam-bowling, but throwing him up to three for the most crucial Test series of them all to face the likes of Clark and Johnson would be crazy.

BTW Flintoff at six is just such a nono. I'd have Foster ahead of him if they were both in the same side, and that's the Honest To Goodness truth.
Flintoff at 6 is decent though when you have the likes of Foster, Broad, Swan, Sidebottom and Anderson. It's not like your 9, 10 and 11s are Harmison, Panesar and Tufnell.

I would back Prior without the gloves to score more at 3 over Bell and Vaughan..
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
That's over-egging it. He may have an excellent technique against the spinners and some sound base against the seamers but I've seen him look pedestrian against capable seam-and-swing merchants on more than one occasion. He's simply too drive-happy. And I really don't like his chances against Clark and Johnson.

Yeah same. It's not like I want him to make many runs. :dry:
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Yeah, I see absolutely no sense in applying any form of previous Test performances to any of the three early this summer. It should all be about who can get some runs in April and May.

I hope that Vaughan makes a strong case for playing, and if he does and doesn't get picked, I'll be exceptionally disappointed. But if he doesn't, he can't play simply because "he might give England a psychological edge".
Yeah, I think this is fair enough. That being said, if they've all done pretty much the same then i'd go with Vaughan
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Flintoff at 6 is decent though when you have the likes of Foster, Broad, Swan, Sidebottom and Anderson. It's not like your 9, 10 and 11s are Harmison, Panesar and Tufnell.
I'd still cringe if you had Flintoff and Foster (decent lower-order players and no more) at six and seven (as I say, I'd have Foster six Flintoff seven myself, Foster may have fewer strokes but that makes him more reliable and less hit-and-miss), then Broad and Swann (unproven at best, good-quality tailenders at worst), then Sidebottom and Anderson (difficult to dismiss by tailender standards and no more).

I really do like to have a specialist batsman at six, especially if my batting unit is highly unproven reliable as one of Strauss, Cook, Prior, Pietersen, Collingwood would be.
I would back Prior without the gloves to score more at 3 over Bell and Vaughan..
I'm honestly not sure I would TBH. It's certainly not impossible or anything but I reckon if you were expecting it you could easily be disappointed.

Also, it simply ain't going to happen.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Yeah, I think this is fair enough. That being said, if they've all done pretty much the same then i'd go with Vaughan
Depends. If they've all done well, sure, go with Vaughan. If they've all done poorly, I reckon I'd be happier with Bopara.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Id much rather have Patel ahead of the 3 of them if they all do poorly if you ask me, but yeah out of the options, Bopara over Vaughan unless Vaughan has a decent start to the season.
 

Uppercut

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Id much rather have Patel ahead of the 3 of them if they all do poorly if you ask me, but yeah out of the options, Bopara over Vaughan unless Vaughan has a decent start to the season.
I'd have Patel has the fifth-option tweaker, with Flintoff playing as one of four bowlers including Swann as the spinner. Personally i'd take Prior as a specialist bat over all three of Vaughan, Shah and Bell. He's the only player to have had any success at all in the past two years, whatever qualifications that success requires, and he hasn't looked at all bad. But i'm not really fussed who plays there so long as that's the balance of the side they settle on- batting low, plenty of bowling options and a keeper who can catch:

Cook
Strauss
Prior for me, but whoever you want at 3
KP
Collingwood
Patel
Flintoff
Foster
Broad/Sidebottom
Swann
Anderson
 

tooextracool

International Coach
I'd have Patel has the fifth-option tweaker, with Flintoff playing as one of four bowlers including Swann as the spinner. Personally i'd take Prior as a specialist bat over all three of Vaughan, Shah and Bell. He's the only player to have had any success at all in the past two years, whatever qualifications that success requires, and he hasn't looked at all bad. But i'm not really fussed who plays there so long as that's the balance of the side they settle on- batting low, plenty of bowling options and a keeper who can catch:

Cook
Strauss
Prior for me, but whoever you want at 3
KP
Collingwood
Patel
Flintoff
Foster
Broad/Sidebottom
Swann
Anderson
Prior at 3 is about the last idea in my mind. Hes done fairly well so far, but im yet to be convinced hes good enough at 6 to bat against the moving ball, so I am fairly confident that at 3 it would not be a good idea for him. Other than that the batting looks pretty solid, I would wait until the start of the season to decide on the bowlers though.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
BUMBACLATHHHHHHH!!!

Whats going on here with my fellow CWers???. Prior @ 3 & Patel in a test XI, really come on now..
 

superkingdave

Hall of Fame Member
bumbclath?
I searched in google and found this, the context may hopefully help us define the meaning.

yall totaly wrong folks come down south we flaggin red to the fullest.. all of them youth with american, jamaican, african o south american background they livin thug live.. the only diffrence is we ain´t killin, we mostly beatin o stabbin and down here it ain´t just 4 the color is ABM u hear me. them bombaclath turks them got the heroin biz on lock yeh, but that´s it. they have alot to say in they´re hoodz.. like here them russians them mo dangerous and mo serious. I´m talkin bout the south side but i can tell u my nigga J rome bangin red with a huge crew named Doc-Fam in cologne, so don´t say germany have no gangs, u just see no bullets flyin trough.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Just how likely is Sidebottom to be in the starting side even if all his niggles clear up? I know he's been mostly very good since his recall, but he looked pedestrian when he did play in the Windies (I know pretty much everyone did with the wickets over there). And I've heard whispers from fans and media alike that he may go the way of Hoggard and be discarded for "loosing his nip" ?
If he's fully fit (and really fully fit) I reckon he'd be the second seamer picked behind Flintoff. Big if tho.

When he made his test comeback he'd successfully added a yard of pace. Not out-and-out quick still, but he was regularly around and above 85mph whereas when I'd seen him in domestic cricket in his years of exile (usually one dayers, admittedly, but still) he was Hoggard (78-82mph) pace.

The trouble is the effort of bowling more quickly seems to have done terrible things to his back (he'd also gained weight last summer, a possible sign he wasn't able to keep his fitness work up because of it) and, as you rightly say, has looked v pedestrian in his abortive comebacks since.

Calls for Vaughan to made number 3 against Aus.

Vaughan again and Leadbeater's gearbox | The Spin | guardian.co.uk Sport

Vaughan is the closest thing England have got to a psychological edge over Australia

He must be joking. If anything, picking Vaughan at 3 will give Australia the psychological edge, so much would it smack of desperation. Whilst this may be true;

...Australia would love it, just love it, if England's No3 this summer is either Ian Bell (who will surely come again in Test cricket) or Owais Shah (who may well not).

.....Aus would love Vaughan at 3 even more right now.
Really? Aus hasn't seen enough of Bell or Shah for my money, then. :p MPV has no form to speak of, but I still reckon a 34 year old with no knees and a tendancy to play down the wrong line is a better bet than either. Does have over 5000 runs @ 40+ still and averages nearly 48 versus you blokes too.

Plus, of course, he's a decent tactician.
 

King Pietersen

International Captain
Bell's sounding really up for this season, and seems desperate to get some big runs. Last time he went back to County Cricket he made that double ton for Warwickshire, so if he does something similar at the start of this season I can see him getting a go. I'd go for Bopara at 3 personally. Averages of 60 and 54 in the last 2 seasons of Championship cricket, and he's proven he can score runs in a Test match with that hundred against the Windies. I rate both Bell and Bopara incredibly highly, and as long as the number 3 spot is held by 1 of those 2 come Cardiff I'll be happy. Just hope Belly gets some runs in FC cricket now!
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Hmm Bopara needs to do more than that ton to prove himself, it certainly didn't cancel out his previous failures; I reckon I could have scored a century in the series in the West indies
 

King Pietersen

International Captain
His previous failures came in Sri Lanka, against Murali, Vaas and an on fire Malinga in their home conditions. Bopara's probably been the best county batsman across both forms in the past 2 years, and is one of the most naturally gifted batsmen going around the county circuit at the minute. Although the pitches in West Indies were flat, he still made runs when given the oppurtunity to play. Making a hundred in the warm up having not slept and with jet lag, and then made one a few days later in the Test match. I'd get him in, he seems to be the sort of guy that won't be flustered by being thrown into an Ashes series, he seems far more mature and mentally strong than he was when he was given his Test debut.
 

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