The Road to the 2009 Ashes

[Richard]

Some remarkable specimins like Simon Jones have remarkable - and unthinkable - career paths.

Almost every part of Simon Jones' career so far has been from the "unlikely" book. Thus, to rule-out him putting-in an appearance this summer would be pure folly.

Also, not one of those bowlers you mentioned as possible ahead-in-the-pecking-orders has basic ability to lace his boots. Thus it's only natural to hope that maybe the "a bit special" type might come to pass once again. Harmison, Khan, Plunkett, Mahmood, Bresnan, Napier, Joseph - all hopeless. Broad, Anderson, Sidebottom, Tremlett - all constrained by not-inconsiderable limitations, of a different nature in each of the 4's cases.

 

[iamdavid]

Who knows who else may be ahead of Jones - Mahmood, Bresnan, Napier, Joseph, Ali etc etc. Whether or not you want to hear the above names associated with the England national team or the Ashes is irrelevant, fact of the matter is that they all have a better claim for a spot than Jones at the moment.

Rubbish, Jones may have only been fit for 9 matches last season, however in those 9 matches he took 42 wickets @18 which if I remember correctly put him at the top of the FC bowling averages. Even if he is able to regain fitness in time for the Ashes then the lingering doubts will obviously still be there. However, at the end of the day he's good enough as has been demonstrated before on the biggest stage and by all reports from last season he didn't appear to have lost much through the time off injured. If he's fit enough, pick him!
To suggest the likes of Napier have a better claim than him atm is a joke.

 

[GIMH]

Agree on the most part, except that everything I've read suggests that Ali was better bowler of the two last season, but Jones got to bowl at more favourable batsmen and times etc

 

[Richard]

I can't shake the feeling that there's precious little more likelihood of Kabir Ali playing for England again than there is Hoggard.

And it's plain wrong, on both counts, as they're clearly two of the best bowlers in the country currently. Not unusually, England are refusing to accept the decent-if-patchy due to the vain pursuit of the excellent which they simply do not possess.

 

[Trumpers_Ghost]

I can't shake the feeling that there's precious little more likelihood of Kabir Ali playing for England again than there is Hoggard.

And it's plain wrong, on both counts, as they're clearly two of the best bowlers in the country currently. Not unusually, England are refusing to accept the decent-if-patchy due to the vain pursuit of the excellent which they simply do not possess.

And here's me thinking that England have been in an eternal vain pursuit for the decent-if-patchy.

 

[TT Boy]

Agree on the most part, except that everything I've read suggests that Ali was better bowler of the two last season, but Jones got to bowl at more favourable batsmen and times etc

Yeah, Ali usually broke the back of the opposition and Jones cleaned up the tail.

Interested to see Ali gets in on in county division one.

 

[Richard]

And here's me thinking that England have been in an eternal vain pursuit for the decent-if-patchy.

If they accepted what they had (and tried to get the most out of it) rather than vainly pursuing what they did not, there'd have been more times where they were decent and fewer where they were woeful.

 

[Shri]

Is Katich a specialist opener or does he open only in tests for Australia?

 

[aussie]

Is Katich a specialist opener or does he open only in tests for Australia?

You can say he has morphed into a specialist opener since his recall in 2008.

 

[aussie]

England playing two spinners?

With only Flintoff's & Anderson place secure.

Harmo's career hanging by the thread, Sidebottom in a weird injury crisis (although he is likely to recover & come into his own) & Broad's position still up in the air.

Picking Swann & Panesar is fastly becoming an option that has to be taken seriously if England are going to 20 wickets in the Ashes.

Opinions ATS??

 

[GIMH]

I don't see how Broad's place is up in the air. Fans may question his place, but it seems safer than Anderson's (which is ridiculous)

 

[Richard]

Just a case of hoping he's not, for me, because I still don't see the current guise of Broad troubling Australia remotely.

As for Swann and MSP, one should certainly play on a turning pitch and quite possibly both. How many of such things we're going to get is quite the question. Frankly, my bet'd be on zero. I can't see either bowler proving terribly effective at any point in the series.

The only ground in England that MSP has had success at is Old Trafford.

 

[superkingdave]

I don't see how Broad's place is up in the air. Fans may question his place, but it seems safer than Anderson's (which is ridiculous)

yeah, AWT

 

[iamdavid]

Just how likely is Sidebottom to be in the starting side even if all his niggles clear up? I know he's been mostly very good since his recall, but he looked pedestrian when he did play in the Windies (I know pretty much everyone did with the wickets over there). And I've heard whispers from fans and media alike that he may go the way of Hoggard and be discarded for "loosing his nip" ?

 

[Trumpers_Ghost]

If they accepted what they had (and tried to get the most out of it) rather than vainly pursuing what they did not, there'd have been more times where they were decent and fewer where they were woeful.

yeah I know what you meant, just trying to downsize the quality of the "inconsistently selected" and the quality of the "desired".

Being a selector in a poorly performing team must be tuff gig. How long do you hold out on a guy for the sake of team continuity? Really think it comes down to having a gut feel on whether a guy in the team has the capacity and likelyhood to improve. Decent-but-patchy I would imagine describes a guy that has probably plateaud in ability (which is not quite upto standard), and should therefore be only used if there are no other alternatives.
As an Australian supporter I would rather a promising player be given a chance (ala Laughlin) than a decent-but-patchy (Tait).
Guess it comes down to the quality of the rest of the team, because selection risks should be minimised (despite the recent success of Aus with the punt on Hughes, North, Hilfenhouse and Macdonald all at the same time).

cheers

 

[Shri]

You can say he has morphed into a specialist opener since his recall in 2008.

P Hughes
S Katich
R Ponting
M Hussey
M Clarke
S Watson / A Symonds / M North
B Haddin / T Paine (not probable though)
M Johnson
B Lee
P Siddle
S Clark

This line up would be good when playing in England imo.

If someone other than Haddin can do a decent job of keeping wickets in that line-up, David Hussey or Phil Jacques can come into the side. If Jacques comes in, Katich can play at his old No.6 batting position that he played in when he debuted for Australia.

 

[Trumpers_Ghost]

P Hughes
S Katich
R Ponting
M Hussey
M Clarke
S Watson / A Symonds
B Haddin / T Paine (not probable though)
M Johnson
B Lee
P Siddle
S Clark

This line up would be good when playing in England imo.

If someone other than Haddin can do a decent job of keeping wickets in that line-up, David Hussey or Phil Jacques can come into the side. If Jacques comes in, Katich can play at his old No.6 batting position that he played in when he debuted for Australia.

I don't think bringing in a batsman to replce Haddin would be even close to a good idea. You NEED a keeper.

Oh and Paine is probably (and deservedly) about 5th or 6th in line for the job of Aussie keeper. Apart from swapping North (spin option) in for Watson (five fast bowlers;our over rate would be apalling) that team is about right.

 

[Shri]

I don't think bringing in a batsman to replce Haddin would be even close to a good idea. You NEED a keeper.

Oh and Paine is probably (and deservedly) about 5th or 6th in line for the job of Aussie keeper. Apart from swapping North (spin option) in for Watson (five fast bowlers;our over rate would be apalling) that team is about right.

Yeah. You are right. North and Clarke can bowl a few quick overs between them if they play together. England does'nt play spin well if their life depended on it and so mediocre spinners should be real good against them. So, a specialist spinner who goes for 150 odd runs for no wicket or one wicket can be avoided against England imo.

 

[gettingbetter]

Some remarkable specimins like Simon Jones have remarkable - and unthinkable - career paths.

Almost every part of Simon Jones' career so far has been from the "unlikely" book. Thus, to rule-out him putting-in an appearance this summer would be pure folly.

Also, not one of those bowlers you mentioned as possible ahead-in-the-pecking-orders has basic ability to lace his boots. Thus it's only natural to hope that maybe the "a bit special" type might come to pass once again. Harmison, Khan, Plunkett, Mahmood, Bresnan, Napier, Joseph - all hopeless. Broad, Anderson, Sidebottom, Tremlett - all constrained by not-inconsiderable limitations, of a different nature in each of the 4's cases.

The bowlers I've mentioned have some sort of form associated with them as well as the added advantages of being fir and playing consistently.

Cricket to Simon Jones is the equivalent to a bull in china shop.

 

[Richard]

I'm aware of that. And most people who hope Simon Jones may play Test cricket this summer are aware that it will require quite a bit of circumstance conspiration in favour to make it happen.

However, everyone else should also be aware that if by some chance he does play he is infinitely more likely to provide the desired effect than any of those nonenities.