Strong Domestc Sides

[Richard]

Early 2000's surrey side would have included

Butcher
Stewart
Thorpe
Batty
Tudor
Bicknell
Saqlain
Salisbury

Within a couple of years, these players all appeared in Surrey's teams:
Mark Butcher, Darren Bicknell, Ian Ward, Nadeem Shahid, Alec Stewart, Graham Thorpe, Mark Ramprakash, Alistair Brown, Adam Hollioake, Jason Radcliffe, Gary Butcher, Ben Hollioake, Alex Tudor, Martin Bicknell, Ian Salisbury, Saqlain Mushtaq, Gareth Batty, Jonathan Batty. There are a couple of "useful backup" players in there but the rest range from genuinely excellent county players to genuinely excellent international players. Almost all of them were home-grown and came up through the county's schools and academy.

 

[superkingdave]

Gallian to open tbh...Lloyd at 5.

Crawley rarely batted anywhere other than 3 for Lancashire after he finished Uni (ie after 1993)

 

[Richard]

I remember him opening with Atherton (and Chilton) on at least a handful of occasions, around 1999-2001.

 

[superkingdave]

he opened with Atherton for the early part of 2000 whilst Chilton was at Uni, when Chilton was available he went to no 3. He opened with Chilton at the end of his reign in 01 because Atherton was unavailable and the other openers tried during the season (Haynes, Driver) were s***house. Essentially he was batting out of position for the team.

 

[Richard]

Also, he opened in the 1998 NW Trophy final, with Atherton. That was pretty well before Chilton came on the scene, though I guess Gallian had only just departed for Notts by then. I'm not suggesting Crawley was an opener by preference, just that he seemed less than totally unenthusiastic about the idea.

 

[Beamer]

The current Trinidad & Tobago side is actually very strong and would at least compete with most other domestic sides, which is remarkable considering how bad our regional team has been in the last decade (those in bold have received international caps).

Adrian Barath - will play for Windies for a long time
Lendl Simmons
Daren Ganga - Captain
Daren Bravo - will play for Windies soon
Dwayne Bravo - Vice Captain
Kieron Pollard
Denesh Ramdin
Reyad Emrit
Dave Mohammed
Ravi Rampaul
Amit Jaggernauth

Last year that side had Brian Lara at number 4, which made for an impressive batting line up.

The Jamaican team is also pretty strong when at full strength, and is full of internationals (particularly as Gayle is putting pressure on the selectors to include his domestic team-mates).

Chris Gayle (c)
Brenton Parchment
Wavell Hinds
Xavier Marshall
Brendan Nash
Tamar Lambert - ordinary batsman but excellent team man.
Carlton Baugh Jr
Nikita Miller
Jerome Taylor
Darren Powell
Andrew Richardson - would play for Windies if he stayed fit

 

[Paddlesmack]

That Mumbai team is very strong, but Sairaj appears to be over the hill and doesn't look like making an impact these days. Too much is made of Dhawal Kulkarni, he's too young and too small to be very useful, and that other youngster (Waingankar) should have been in the team ahead of him. The wicketkeeper, Vinayak Samant, is very under-rated and is possibly the best gloveman in the country. It's a tough call whether or not to include Abhishek Nayar, ahead of Bahutule, but it surely looks one of the strongest FC teams you can pick here.

This should be a complete Delhi lineup=

• Sehwag
• Gambhir
• Chopra
• Dhawan
• Manhas
• Bhatia/Yogesh Nagar (RM)
• Punit Bhisht (WK)
• Bhandari/Sumit Narwal (RMF)
• Nanda (LBG)
• Nehra (LFM)
• Ishant (RFM)

Not a very balanced team, but still strong, though not quite as strong as Mumbai.

Of course, Nayar would be included. He's top class, I simply forgot about him. He's one of my favorite players actually!

Dinesh Karthik I think is still the best gloveman in the country. Sure he had a bad tour of Sri Lanka but he's back to his best now, and doing wonderfully in all aspects for Tamil Nadu. Captaining superbly (TN are at the top of the table), wicketkeeping brilliantly, and making runs with the bat.

Yeah Delhi on paper are one of the strongest teams in the country. But rarely do they perform to their fullest potential, which is quite sad. Where is Kohli in your XI though?!

Saurashtra may be considered one of the better teams simply because of the Pujara factor - that guy is an absolute beast. Three blitzkrieg triple hundreds in a month followed by a run a ball 180. He's just so good!

Lovin' the current Tamil Nadu team:

Murali Vijay
Abhinav Mukund
Subramanium Badrinath (Should really be in the Indian team!)
Dinesh Karthik (Captain and Keeper)
S Vidyut
Arun Karthik
SS Kumar / Yo Mahesh (is he injured?)
R Ashwin
C Ganapathy
Balaji
Amarnath

I think it's fairly well balanced, and have a good shot at the trophy this year.

 

[fredfertang]

Within a couple of years, these players all appeared in Surrey's teams:
Mark Butcher, Darren Bicknell, Ian Ward, Nadeem Shahid, Alec Stewart, Graham Thorpe, Mark Ramprakash, Alistair Brown, Adam Hollioake, Jason Radcliffe, Gary Butcher, Ben Hollioake, Alex Tudor, Martin Bicknell, Ian Salisbury, Saqlain Mushtaq, Gareth Batty, Jonathan Batty. There are a couple of "useful backup" players in there but the rest range from genuinely excellent county players to genuinely excellent international players. Almost all of them were home-grown and came up through the county's schools and academy.

In 2002 16 past present or future internationals appeared for Surrey at some time or other in the championship

 

[Richard]

And you think of the likes of Darren Bicknell, Ali Brown, even Nadeem Shahid. Never played so much as 1 Test (though of course Brown's case is a blurry one as he played ODIs so could be counted as an "international" even though he never played internationally the form they play in the Championship) any of them, but how England would've killed for players of their calibre in the chaos of 1988 and 1989.

 

[Arjun]

Of course, Nayar would be included. He's top class, I simply forgot about him. He's one of my favorite players actually!

With Sairaj, you get the weight of experience and also balance (offie-leggie) for the team. He's been a little unimpressive, these days.

Dinesh Karthik I think is still the best gloveman in the country. Sure he had a bad tour of Sri Lanka but he's back to his best now, and doing wonderfully in all aspects for Tamil Nadu. Captaining superbly (TN are at the top of the table), wicketkeeping brilliantly, and making runs with the bat.

We've seen him keep wickets, and while he's one of the better glovemen who can also score runs, he's not the kind of keeper to have keeping to Kumble. Samant has been keeping to spinners for a long time and given Mumbai's success in bowling teams out, he's surely one of the best. He's often ignored because he's not a top-order batsman.

Yeah Delhi on paper are one of the strongest teams in the country. But rarely do they perform to their fullest potential, which is quite sad. Where is Kohli in your XI though?!

Delhi, it seems, do tend to be a little complacent, but we find that their selections are constantly dogged by nepotism. Sons of officials often get into the team ahead of more deserving players, and I'll add a little on the latest controversy in the domestic season thread. I've left out Kohli because he's not much of a bowler, and that XI was picked to take 20 wickets, hence the likes of Bhatia stay in. He'd make the XI ahead of Chopra or Dhawan, but those are big names.

Saurashtra may be considered one of the better teams simply because of the Pujara factor - that guy is an absolute beast. Three blitzkrieg triple hundreds in a month followed by a run a ball 180. He's just so good!

Saurashtra are a team in good form, but that's on the back of huge scores by Pujara and also chunky all-round performances by Ravindra Jadeja, but there's nothing else in that team that's special. That bubble may burst sooner than later, as we may find on dodgy pitches.

Lovin' the current Tamil Nadu team:

Murali Vijay
Abhinav Mukund
Subramanium Badrinath (Should really be in the Indian team!)
Dinesh Karthik (Captain and Keeper)
S Vidyut
Arun Karthik
SS Kumar / Yo Mahesh (is he injured?)
R Ashwin
C Ganapathy
Balaji
Amarnath

I think it's fairly well balanced, and have a good shot at the trophy this year.

You've got six bowlers in that XI! One of them may be left out for a batsman and Vidyut can turn his arm over a lot more, or maybe drop Vidyut for a batsman. TN need to bowl teams out consistently, though.

 

[Redbacks]

South Australia 70/71

BA Richards
AJ Woodcock
*IM Chappell
GS Chappell
JP Causby
KG Cunningham
EW Freeman
AA Mallett
TJ Jenner
+M Hendricks
JR Hammond

Or 38/39 Bradman played 6 innings 5 hundreds ave 160.20, plus CV Grimmett and the rest.

 

[wpdavid]

1997 Possible Roses XIs
Only Internationals considered

Yorks vs Lancs

Yorks
1. Vaughan
2. Moxon
3. Lehmann
4. McGrath
5. White
6. Blakey
7. Hamilton
8. Gough
9. Batty
10. Sidebottom
11. Hoggard

Left out- Wharf and Silverwood

Lancs
1. Lloyd
2. Atherton
3. Crawley
4. Fairbrother
5. Gallian
6. Flintoff
7. Watkinson
8. Wasim
9. Hegg
10. Chapple
11. Martin

Left out- Austin

2 very decent XIs

True, but the mid-60's Yorkshire side would probably claim to be better. From memory - Boycott, Close, Sharpe, Hampshire, Illingworth & Trueman all played test cricket. I'll have to check the rest of the side though.

EDIT
You can add Don Wilson, Doug Patchett, Ken Taylor & Richard Hutton to that list.
And it turns out that Jimmy Binks played a couple of tests as well.

There you have it - the whole Yorkshire side from the 1965 Gillette Cup Final either had played or went on to play test cricket.

 

[wpdavid]

Within a couple of years, these players all appeared in Surrey's teams:
Mark Butcher, Darren Bicknell, Ian Ward, Nadeem Shahid, Alec Stewart, Graham Thorpe, Mark Ramprakash, Alistair Brown, Adam Hollioake, Jason Radcliffe, Gary Butcher, Ben Hollioake, Alex Tudor, Martin Bicknell, Ian Salisbury, Saqlain Mushtaq, Gareth Batty, Jonathan Batty. There are a couple of "useful backup" players in there but the rest range from genuinely excellent county players to genuinely excellent international players. Almost all of them were home-grown and came up through the county's schools and academy.

Around 2001, Surrey's first choice XI would have looked something like
1. Butcher
2. Stewart
3. Ramps
4. Thorpe
5. Brown
6. Hollioake A.
7. Batty J.
8. Salisbury
9. Bicknell
10. Tudor
11. Saqlain

Not that they ever played together due to test callups, but I've not seen a better batting lineup in a county side.

 

[Richard]

Stewart opening? Mark Butcher and Ian Ward was always first-choice there between '99 and Ward's bizarre decision to relocate in 2004 or whenever it was.

I seem to recall Surrey actually turning-out this side in 1999:
M Butcher
I Ward
Stewart
Thorpe
A Brown
A Hollioake
B Hollioake
Tudor
M Bicknell
Salisbury
Saqlain Mushtaq

With Ramprakash's arrival for 2001, I'd imagine Ben Hollioake would've been dropped had they been consistently able to field everyone. Don't see the point in leaving-out Ian Ward, having Stewart bat in a position that I can't even remember reading a scorecard where he batted there (wonder when the latest game in which he opened for Surrey was? 'Cos it was sure before 1999) and having Jonathan Batty (who in those days wasn't as good a batsman as he has been since 2002) in the side.

 

[wpdavid]

Stewart opening? Mark Butcher and Ian Ward was always first-choice there between '99 and Ward's bizarre decision to relocate in 2004 or whenever it was.

I seem to recall Surrey actually turning-out this side in 1999:
M Butcher
I Ward
Stewart
Thorpe
A Brown
A Hollioake
B Hollioake
Tudor
M Bicknell
Salisbury
Saqlain Mushtaq

With Ramprakash's arrival for 2001, I'd imagine Ben Hollioake would've been dropped had they been consistently able to field everyone. Don't see the point in leaving-out Ian Ward, having Stewart bat in a position that I can't even remember reading a scorecard where he batted there (wonder when the latest game in which he opened for Surrey was? 'Cos it was sure before 1999) and having Jonathan Batty (who in those days wasn't as good a batsman as he has been since 2002) in the side.

Yeah - for some reason I forgot about Ward when posting that last one and simply listed what I thought would be their strongest XI after Ramps joined in 2001.

EDIT

btw if you feel so inclined, ask your dad about Yorkshire's 1960's side. I don't really know much about them beyond the facts I stated earlier, but I'm sure he could tell you a lot more. Looking at the card for the 1965 Gillette Cup Final, I was astonished to see an overall RR above 5 an over. I know that was the game when Boycott famously gave it some humpety, but in the context of 1965 I figured that meant about 4 an over absolutely max.

 

[pskov]

The three greatest county sides in the 20th century are generally thought to have been Yorkshire in the 30s, Surrey in the 50s and Yorkshire in the 60s. No other teams have come close to the extended domination that those three teams had over the rest of the country for years at a time. Of course one could say that conversely the opposition quality may have been lower during those time periods, but all three sides were littered with test players so I'm not sure that's fair.

 

[Richard]

Let's take, for example, 1937. Yorkshire that season had: Sutcliffe, Hutton, Leyland, Mitchell, Barber, Yardley, Bowes, Smailes, Verity and Robinson. These players ranged from excellent county players to some of the best ever to play for England. And only 1 place remained to be filled.

 

[fredfertang]

The three greatest county sides in the 20th century are generally thought to have been Yorkshire in the 30s, Surrey in the 50s and Yorkshire in the 60s. No other teams have come close to the extended domination that those three teams had over the rest of the country for years at a time. Of course one could say that conversely the opposition quality may have been lower during those time periods, but all three sides were littered with test players so I'm not sure that's fair.

I'd put the Lancashire side of the late 20's up there with them - despite the weather they won the title in 1926, 27, 28 and 30 (and again in 34) and were runners up to Notts in 29

 

[fredfertang]

Let's take, for example, 1937. Yorkshire that season had: Sutcliffe, Hutton, Leyland, Mitchell, Barber, Yardley, Bowes, Smailes, Verity and Robinson. These players ranged from excellent county players to some of the best ever to play for England. And only 1 place remained to be filled.

A piece of related trivia

Three players who played for Yorkshire that season had sons who played for England - Len Hutton, of course, but in addition Mike Brearley's and John Hampshire's fathers also turned out for Yorkshire in the championship

Add to that that Herbert Sutcliffe's son Billy played for Yorks later as did Hampshire snr's younger son Alan and you have five sons who played at first class level

 

[Richard]

And later a grandson (Ben Hutton) as well, albeit not for Yorkshire.