MoxPearl
State Vice-Captain
People seem to always forget we have been ranked near the top of the ODI rankings for quite awhile now....
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**Official** England in New Zealand
- Thread starter James
- Start date
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Nah, people with connection to England just often forget how roundly awful they are at ODIs.
And that won't change as long as they keep picking players with little or no pedigree at the one-day game.
Too often people are willing to claim England are improving at ODIs on flimsy, nothing, evidence. WoW, so we won a handful of games against India and Sri Lanka - it's always the same when we win 2 or 3 games.
England are long overdue a good ODI thrashing, and while I thought that last time we were over here (and NZ actually had a really good side at that time) and it turned-out NZ let us off the hook, I'm still fairly confident it might happen.
Obviously, even if we do never see Mustard in a ODI shirt again (and it is something that Mustard is the only blatantly obviously totally-out-of-place figure in the most recent team selected) it'll only mean the next Mustard\Wright\Bresnan\Mahmood comes in instead. But we can always live in hope that one day they might actually pick the right players in whichever accidental method they use to pick them.
And that won't change as long as they keep picking players with little or no pedigree at the one-day game.
Too often people are willing to claim England are improving at ODIs on flimsy, nothing, evidence. WoW, so we won a handful of games against India and Sri Lanka - it's always the same when we win 2 or 3 games.
England are long overdue a good ODI thrashing, and while I thought that last time we were over here (and NZ actually had a really good side at that time) and it turned-out NZ let us off the hook, I'm still fairly confident it might happen.
Obviously, even if we do never see Mustard in a ODI shirt again (and it is something that Mustard is the only blatantly obviously totally-out-of-place figure in the most recent team selected) it'll only mean the next Mustard\Wright\Bresnan\Mahmood comes in instead. But we can always live in hope that one day they might actually pick the right players in whichever accidental method they use to pick them.
Tim
Cricketer Of The Year
I suppose Iain O'Brien deserves a go as he's been in their mix for awhile but why aren't the looking at another younger bowling option like Leighton Burtt. He's 23, played 2 or 3 seasons now for Canterbury and looks to be coming along very nicely.
11 wickets in the State Shield at an avg of 15.
With the Black Caps all over England right now, it might have been good to see an up & coming bowler thrown in to see what he can do.
11 wickets in the State Shield at an avg of 15.
With the Black Caps all over England right now, it might have been good to see an up & coming bowler thrown in to see what he can do.
Langeveldt
Soutie
Bopara remains one of the most hideously poor players ever to grace international cricket since, well, Saj Mahmood? One would reckon England have some sort of quota of cricketers of Asian extraction going on, so why not at least pick a fellow who can impress, ie Mascarenhas?
Perm
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I had high hopes for Bell at the end of the Indian series, just after he'd scored his maiden century and was averaging almost 40. He hasn't lived up to my expectations since then, and I feel his form is poor enough to warrant him being dropped. Unless he makes a score of note in the next game, then I'd like to see somebody else bat #3. Unfortuantely by that time it will probably be too late for England.
Wright was just another name that could be chucked into the mix, I'm not actively advocating his selection. As you say, Shah would be better, was would Bopara, but I reckon Wright would score more quickly, and maybe more than Bell has been of late.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Bopara's simply a beneficiary (or non-beneficiary, given all the supposed beneficiaries have had a wretched time) of the sort of nonsense that's benefited, amongst others, Ian Blackwell, Owais Shah, Matthew Prior, Alex Wharf, Geraint Jones, Jamie Troughton and Robert Key - ie, a combination of one-season-wonderness and game-form-muddling.
Plus the "he's young, he's got potential, he WILL get better even though he's done roughly nothing in his career so far" nonsense that's seen us have the likes of Plunkett and the even worse Loudon and Bresnan.
Tim
Cricketer Of The Year
The problem is though, that alot of these guys are introduced when they're 19,20. If England want these guys to come good then they've got to invest in them for a few years.
You look at players like Kyle Mills, Jacob Oram, Scott Styris in the NZ team. They took ages to start showing their promise.
You look at players like Kyle Mills, Jacob Oram, Scott Styris in the NZ team. They took ages to start showing their promise.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Picking players aged 19 and 20 rarely works. They're almost never up to it at that age.
Invest in them, sure, great - send them to Academies, organise tours, England A tours even, but don't go picking them for international cricket when they're patently not up to it.
Not least because they might well never be. I've said it many times - I don't ever see Plunkett becoming an international-standard bowler, less still Bresnan.
Pick the players who actually have already started to deliver on their promise. Not players who might amount to something if you've guessed right.
Invest in them, sure, great - send them to Academies, organise tours, England A tours even, but don't go picking them for international cricket when they're patently not up to it.
Not least because they might well never be. I've said it many times - I don't ever see Plunkett becoming an international-standard bowler, less still Bresnan.
Pick the players who actually have already started to deliver on their promise. Not players who might amount to something if you've guessed right.
Flem274*
123/5
No not at the expense of Fulton. Sinclair fine, that would be a fair argument but Fulton has shown in his time:
a) Consistency in ODIs
b) Very, very good FC record. Up there with the Flemings and the Sinclairs and the Ryders
c) Hasn't fired in tests yet but its only a matter of time
Sorry for sounding like I'm having a go at you but I can't stand people under estimating Peter Fulton. He's one of our shining lights for the future.
Brett Dale
School Boy/Girl Captain
Ryder got interviewed tonight on the main news programme in NewZealand, I think they may be getting carried away, I think they should wait until the tests, before they start singing his praises.
Natman20
International Debutant
Highlights of yesterdays match. I pretty much included every boundary of McCullum and Ryder
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Bopara's test & noneday selection need to be viewed separately. It's previously been said by a few of us that his selection for the tests in SL, when he leapfrogged Shah on the basis of nothing remotely substantial was sheer madness of the kind I thought we'd kissed goodbye to about 10 years ago.
The oneday side is another matter though. He has played two significant innings when nearly all around him were failing horribly, one of which won a game which we should have lost by a mile, and the other came closer to doing the same than anyone could reasonably expected. That's why he's still playing, even if his current form isn't pretty, and even if his running out of Cook was as stupid a piece of cricket as you could wish to see.
As for his inital selection, we all know that you'd struggle to name an XI based on outstanding domestic List A form, so there's always going to be hunches. Bopara was certainly no worse a pick than the guys you've mentioned, and we could all add to that list fairly easily. Admirable restraint on your part, btw, to the previous post. Given the cast of mediocre cricketers of all hues who have played for England's one day side , I shudder to think why anyone would want to bring race into this. 'Hideous' indeed.
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Sorry to be ungrateful, but no thank you.
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
True, but I can't help but think that this is also playing a part in his selection:
MEK Hussey b Bopara 6
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, maybe.
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
"Children" by Robert Miles at the start right? Great song choice if so. Love that track.
Matt52
U19 Vice-Captain
good man.
vic_orthdox
Global Moderator
Geez there was some clean hitting there.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
The thing is, those type of innings Bopara played, while superlative, are very, very atypical of the innings required in the one-day game. It's remarkable that Bopara has had the chance to play two of that nature in such a short time. When it comes to playing the innings more typically required, especially from a number-seven batsman, he's come-up short a fair few times, and there's no indication of that changing any time soon for mine. So I think his being selected at seven is stupid, and at three would be questionable.
Maybe not, but there have always been, even if only to two or three, a list of players who should be in the ODI side ahead of said hunches. It gets a little tedious seeing hunch after hunch be preferred to the small amount of proven quality there is.
Well safe to say Hingston was joking a little more than I was on the occasion when I was stupid enough to mention the matter... but I was sorely tempted to name the whole lot who've played the last 7 years, as I so often have done before.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Online this late on your birthday Jack?