Worst established Test side in history

[silentstriker]

Inspired by this post. This only counts the stats of the players who are playing the match. Obviously minnows would be lower, but discount all sides until the country has won 15 Tests. At that point, they would be reasonably established.

Perm gave the current WI side:

Gayle - 38.42
Ganga - 26.51
Morton - 23.27
Samuels - 29.24
Chanderpaul - 46.75
Bravo - 33.16 & 40.78
Ramdin - 22.74
Sammy - 16.75 & 14.77
Taylor - 10.26 & 36.60
Powell - 6.55 & 42.46
Edwards - 4.00 & 42.53

So which sides are worse (stats wise)? Someone post a worse side, and then the next person tries to outdo it.

 

[Richard]

Sri Lanka in about 1989 or so weren't flash. Dunno any particulars.

England (and maybe Australia) around about the Rebel tour time would surely have had several right up there.

The best contenders would be England in 1988 and 1989, the blackest time in English cricket history. That would surely provide our worst.

 

[silentstriker]

Sri Lanka did not win their 15th Test match until 1999.

 

[Smudge]

NZ v Sri Lanka in Napier 1995

Bryan Young - 31.78
Darrin Murray - 20.20
Mark Greatbach - 30.62
Stephen Fleming - 39.61
Ken Rutherford - 27.08
Shane Thomson - 30.90 and 50.15
Adam Parore - 26.28
Gavin Larsen - 14.11 and 28.70 (the strike bowler!!)
Dion Nash - 23.51 and 28.48 (Ok, the bowling's looking alright)
Danny Morrison - 8.42 and 34.68
Kerry Walmsley - 2.60 and 43.44

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

You can't call West Indies an established Test side though. You can't base that on the legacy of a team. This West Indies side has NOTHING to do with the legendary team of old. It's a transition period which occurs at some point to every team in every sport.

It's a very young team, so it's all relative regardless of international experience. These are players who have had to learn a lot more about international cricket while playing it than many of other countries. Thrown in at the deep end.

 

[Richard]

The list here. Unfortunately in 1988 despite the presence in all Tests of any number of nothing names (John Childs, Chris Cowdrey, Jack Richards, Paul Downton, Matthew Maynard, David Capel, Derek Pringle, Graham Dilley, Gladstone Small, Bill Athey, Tim Curtis, Paul Jarvis, Robert Bailey) there was always some redeeming feature, including Phillip DeFreitas, who was awful in the 1980s but pretty good in the 1990s, so sadly should count but doesn't.

This one was hardly flash:
Tim Curtis (15.55)
Martyn Moxon (28.43, but never given a fair chance)
Michael Atherton (went on to be a superb batsman of course, but this was his debut and he was just a month out of Uni)
Robin Smith (one redeeming feature at 48.66 as of this Test)
David Gower (another at 44.25)
Ian Botham (a shadow of the player he had once been but still averaging decently with bat and ball - CBA calculating exactly)
RC "Jack" Russell (27.10, though this was his debut series and in it he averaged 45.33)
Edward Hemmings (22,53, 42.44)
Angus Fraser (went on to be a superb bowler, but averaged just 35.88 in his debut series)
Nick Cook (32.48)
Devon Malcolm (took 44-1-166 on Test debut, described as "looked anything but a Test bowler, he had no formal run-up" by Atherton)

 

[Richard]

Sri Lanka did not win their 15th Test match until 1999.

So? They clearly competed well upon their first arrival, and established themselves in a way Bangladesh never have. They just got rather worse in the late-1980s, as West Indies did a decade ago.

 

[NZTailender]

NZ's last test team would give the Windies a run for their money.

Cumming - 28.14
Papps - 16.40
Vincent - 34.15
Fleming - 39.61
Styris - 36.04 - 51.15
Taylor - 11.00
McCullum - 30.65
Vettori - 25.58 - 34.71
Gillespie - 0.00 - 27.20
O'Brien - 4.00 - 77.80
Martin - 2.00 - 34.27

NZ's Batting averages (combined) = 227.47. Average = 20.68
NZ's Bowling averages (combined) = 225.13. Average = 45.03

West Indies Batting averages (combined) = 257.65. Average = 23.42
West Indies Bowling averages (combined) = 177.14. Average = 35.43

 

[Pratters]

Australia in the mid 80s would be pretty weak statistically at times (if you consider the stats of the guys at the point they were playing and not their over all career stats)

 

[silentstriker]

So? They clearly competed well upon their first arrival, and established themselves in a way Bangladesh never have. They just got rather worse in the late-1980s, as West Indies did a decade ago.

So that does not fit the criteria I laid out.

 

[silentstriker]

You can't call West Indies an established Test side though. You can't base that on the legacy of a team. This West Indies side has NOTHING to do with the legendary team of old. It's a transition period which occurs at some point to every team in every sport.

It's a very young team, so it's all relative regardless of international experience. These are players who have had to learn a lot more about international cricket while playing it than many of other countries. Thrown in at the deep end.

The country is an established Test nation though.

 

[Perm]

So? They clearly competed well upon their first arrival, and established themselves in a way Bangladesh never have. They just got rather worse in the late-1980s, as West Indies did a decade ago.

silenstriker said 15 Test wins was the requirement, and since the thread was his idea, I'm sure he'd appreciate if you didn't rush in and try to dominate with your own opinion.

 

[Richard]

Australia in the mid 80s would be pretty weak statistically at times (if you consider the stats of the guys at the point they were playing and not their over all career stats)

Yeah, the McDermotts, Reids, Hugheses, Boons, Stephen Waughs etc. all started poorly, sometimes very poorly.

Something like Wood, Hilditch, Ritchie, Boon, Border, Stephen Waugh, Phillips, McDermott, Reid, Hughes, Lawson might have played at some point. Not sure though.

 

[Richard]

So that does not fit the criteria I laid out.

silenstriker said 15 Test wins was the requirement, and since the thread was his idea, I'm sure he'd appreciate if you didn't rush in and try to dominate with your own opinion.

Haha didn't notice the qualification TBH, I'd dispute that 15 Test wins is a requirement to be an established side too TBH, but 'tis your call.

 

[Perm]

NZ's Batting averages (combined) = 227.47. Average = 20.68
NZ's Bowling averages (combined) = 225.13. Average = 45.03

West Indies Batting averages (combined) = 257.65. Average = 23.42
West Indies Bowling averages (combined) = 177.14. Average = 35.43

Assuming that all four bowlers are equal (which they aren't), as Ian O'Brien and Darren Sammy distort the averages significantly. Instead, it may be a better idea (if more difficult) to add up runs conceeded and divide by wickets taken.

 

[Richard]

Here's another list.

EDIT: scratch that, this'll take some beating (or not)
Wayne Phillips (a wicketkeeper opening, always a sure sign of weakness, and one of the worst wicketkeepers ever what's more, someone find a dropped-chance:caught-chance ratio stat, we need it)
Robert Kerr (Test average 7.75)
Boon (averaging 19.20 after the first-innings of this Test)
Border
Ritchie
David Hookes (34.36)
Greg Matthews (41.08 and 48.22 - and he was a bowler!)
Simon O'Donnell
Ray Bright
David Gilbert
Bob Holland

Surely Australia's worst-ever Test attack?

 

[Shaggy Alfresco]

West Indies at Headingly this year.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Here's another list.

EDIT: scratch that, this'll take some beating (or not)
Wayne Phillips (a wicketkeeper opening, always a sure sign of weakness, and one of the worst wicketkeepers ever what's more, someone find a dropped-chance:caught-chance ratio stat, we need it)
Robert Kerr (Test average 7.75)
Boon (averaging 19.20 after the first-innings of this Test)
Border
Ritchie
David Hookes (34.36)
Greg Matthews (41.08 and 48.22 - and he was a bowler!)
Simon O'Donnell
Ray Bright
David Gilbert
Bob Holland

Surely Australia's worst-ever Test attack?

Matthews was actually a bowling all-rounder...doesn't make his bowling average any better at this period in time, but anyway. Is this from an actual test? They're playing three spinners + Border (the very very part-timer)...so if it's a real line up it would have to be hands down the worst bowling line up ever haha

 

[NZTailender]

West Indies at Headingly this year.

West Indies when they had the players on strike and toured Sri Lanka IIRC.

 

[Perm]

West Indies when they had the players on strike and toured Sri Lanka IIRC.

http://nz.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2005/WI_IN_SL/

1st Test

SC Joseph - 14.70
XM Marshall - 4.25
RS Morton - 23.28
N Deonarine - 21.40
S Chanderpaul - 46.76
DR Smith - 24.62 & 49.14
D Ramdin - 22.74
OAC Banks - 26.50 & 48.82
DB Powell - 6.56 & 42.47
TL Best - 10.24 & 45.04
JJC Lawson - 3.47 & 29.65

Batting average - 18.59
Bowling average - 43.02

2nd Test

XM Marshall - 4.25
R Ramdass - 13.00
RS Morton - 23.28
S Chanderpaul - 46.76
SC Joseph - 14.70
N Deonarine - 21.40
D Ramdin - 22.74
OAC Banks - 26.50 & 48.82
DB Powell - 6.56 & 42.47
TL Best - 10.24 & 45.04
JJC Lawson - 3.47 & 29.65

Batting average - 17.53
Bowling average - 41.49