Is Dale Steyn the new Allan Donald?

[JBH001]

The smiley not give it away AM? Maybe I am being too clever...

 

[Craig]

Come again??

A cruel piss-take my friend.

 

[archie mac]

The smiley not give it away AM? Maybe I am being too clever...

Sorry mate I was trying to ram home your point, not have a go at you

 

[Craig]

Trust LHC to go for Virender Sehwag

 

[JBH001]

Sorry mate I was trying to ram home your point, not have a go at you

Oh, cool.

Though my point was not the current state of flat deckedness.

Rather that AD had (iirc) a relatively poor record against Australia.

 

[archie mac]

Oh, cool.

Though my point was not the current state of flat deckedness.

Rather that AD had (iirc) a relatively poor record against Australia.

I was not aware of his poor record against Aust. what was his Test average?

 

[JBH001]

unfiltered            72 2586.3  7344 330  8/71  12/139  22.25  2.83  47.0 20  3
filtered              14  544.2  1647  53  6/59   9/133  31.07  3.02  61.6  2  0

 

[TT Boy]

Slightly off-topic, but still related to Steyn, has anyone heard something about him being selected for the 4th time?

I heard it on the Cricket show from ian Healy and seems like an unfair criticism of Steyn, he's only played 10 or so Test amtches and for such a young person, it is obvious that more often than not he will be the fall guy. Add to that quotas, a certain amount of depth in the fast bowling ranks of SA and incumbents - i don't really see where Healy was going with that comment.

Unsurprisingly, Healy is talking out of his ass. Steyn was dropped after the England series in early 2005 and returned a year later against New Zealand at home. Since that series, Dale has been involved in every test match possible, only missing a few test matches due to injury. In other words he hasn’t been dropped four times and he has played fifteen test matches not ten, twelve in the past two years.

 

[TT Boy]

Trying for the 3rd time (**** you Mozilla ), and with 39 Test scalps this year thus far at an average of 14 and a s/r of 26, including ripping up New Zealand (who let's face it are not Test standard ATM) with 20 wickets against them, he did bowl with pace and he put Craig Cumming into hospital with a killer bouncer. He took 9 wickets in Pakistan, although I didn't see that series, he did go for a bit of tap runs wise. And obviously there he needs to improve his economy rate in ODIs as in anybodies language going at over 6 is not acceptable (maybe how one-day cricket is going maybe we will be thankful of such mercies eventually), but he has 7 games under his belt so there is no time on his side. He has followed the Donald approach in playing for Warwickshire already.

Also both players have very similar actions.

Anyhow his the man himself speaking about Dale…

"Judging by his first (Test) appearance (three years ago), it's his maturity that was most impressive. You could see even in Pakistan, on those pitches that offer no help to fast bowlers, that he wanted to bowl - his attitude in wanting to bowl in those conditions was brilliant. At his age, all you want to do is bowl fast - I was like that too. Sometimes you want to bowl too quick, but one of the things that impressed me about Dale's performance was that he was thinking about his bowling.

He was plotting and setting up people, and that is another sign of that maturity. You could see that as the wicket deteriorated in New Zealand's second innings, they didn't fancy facing him.

Sometimes when I've watched him play for the Titans, I thought he went a bit overboard with the aggression - he can be a little more calmer. But everyone learns and as he rolls on in his career, becoming calmer is something that will fall in to place for him.

They're starting to find a balance with the pace bowling, even without Morne Mørkel.

If you look at Steyn and Mørkel, you've got two guys capable of getting it up to 140km/h-plus - then there's Andre Nel, who bowls in the high 130s, and there's Makhaya Ntini and then Jacques Kallis.

The day will come when Mørkel and Steyn open the attack, and that is a helluva prospect."

http://www.capeargus.co.za/?fSectionId=&fArticleId=vn20071113070157406C149018

 

[burr]

I've only seen him from the cricket show today, but wow! Very impressive. There would have to be nothing more exciting (and needed) in world test cricket at the moment than a young fast bowler with real talent. Really hope he stays the distance.

 

[Jono]

No, but he's still awesome.

 

[Goughy]

Hopefully relevant. Something I posted to a slightly different question elsewhere.

I played in the same league as him (he played for Eersterust, a cricket club from a coloured township where they apparantly invested their development money on him, Alfie Thomas and others)

Ive seen him bowl a number of times in the flesh and on TV.

As our boys said in the league game, he isnt short of pace.

My main worries are that whilst he is quick he isnt a genuine 'express'. This combined with his lack of height means that he will struggle for weapons on docile tracks and when the shine goes off the ball.

On the plus side, he isnt slow, can bowl good outswing, has the ability to bowl the magic ball and is getting better all the time.

I think he is destined for a good career but not a great one. When he is on form and full of beans or when conditions suit he will be dangerous. I just think that in between these successes there will be more barren spells than you would expect from a top quality fast bowler.

 

[Speersy]

Watched about 3 overs of him, and I didn't think he was much at all. He seems to be getting alot of wickets recently which suggests that he is pretty awesome and I have no judge of a good bowler

 

[iamdavid]

Just like saying "is Asif the new Glenn McGrath"....we cant read too much into what he's done so far.

Although I have been very impressed with Steyn's improvement since he first played test cricket. His control is pretty hot and cold but there arent many bowlers in the world atm who swing the ball as prodigiously as he does at the pace he does, when he gets things right he's a very, very dangerous customer as New Zealand just found out.

Has a long way to go before we compare him to Donald, but I'd go as far as to say he's a better bowler than Brett Lee or Shoaib Akhtar were at the same stage in their careers.

 

[silentstriker]

Don't be ridiculous. Steyn has three times the heart Donald did.

 

[Prince EWS]

I think he is destined for a good career but not a great one. When he is on form and full of beans or when conditions suit he will be dangerous. I just think that in between these successes there will be more barren spells than you would expect from a top quality fast bowler.

Completely agree with that.

 

[Richard]

This thread needs Richard...

Nah, I resisted. The "no" is an impossible option not to choose.

Anyway - my thoughts are farly similar to Kev's, Steyn is inestimably better than he was in 2004\05 (crying shame he was selected then from so many angles) but has still done less of note than it might appear.

He's demolished New Zealand, a weak batting-line-up, at home, on mostly seam-friendly surfaces. That said, the surfaces haven't overtly contributed to that - he's a short bowler and hasn't profited greatly from the uneven bounce, and while the batting has been poor he's still got plenty of wickets from fine swing-bowling rather than all bad batting.

Nonetheless, there's probably roughly 0 chance of him ever emulating Donald - he lacks the height, and only the very, very, very best have ever been able to become top-10-ish-20th-century bowlers (which Donald very much is IMO) without being fairly (6"2' or so) tall.

Steyn could indeed become a serious Test bowler. But I don't ever see him possessing the accuracy to join the Adcocks, Heines, Pollocks, Procters, Donalds, de Villierses and Pollocks at the very top of the South African tree.

And to date, too, he's not done that much other than against New Zealand. He had 2 good games (the only 2 he was fit for) at home in 2006\07 and bowled one spell that potentially decided the series in Pakistan (but was nonetheless his only notable deed in the series). But he was poor in Sri Lanka and has played minimal cricket other than this.

 

[Richard]

Rather that AD had (iirc) a relatively poor record against Australia.

And that's so, so grossly misreprisented. Donald's average against Australia in his first 11 games (ie, excluding those where he was a skeleton of the bowler he'd once been) was 27.85, not as good as against the other sides he faced but still hardly abysmal. Most bowlers have some form of "bogey" team, even Glenn McGrath was less successful against South Africa than he was against anyone else.

Donald had plenty of good games against Australia, taking 7-117 at The SCG in 1993\94, 6-137 at Kingsmead in the same season, 8-96 at Centurion in 1996\97 and 9-133 at The MCG in 1997\98. It's not like he was completely conquered by them, at all. Nor that Australia were even the best batting-line-up of his day.

 

[archie mac]

And that's so, so grossly misreprisented. Donald's average against Australia in his first 11 games (ie, excluding those where he was a skeleton of the bowler he'd once been) was 27.85, not as good as against the other sides he faced but still hardly abysmal. Most bowlers have some form of "bogey" team, even Glenn McGrath was less successful against South Africa than he was against anyone else.

Donald had plenty of good games against Australia, taking 7-117 at The SCG in 1993\94, 6-137 at Kingsmead in the same season, 8-96 at Centurion in 1996\97 and 9-133 at The MCG in 1997\98. It's not like he was completely conquered by them, at all. Nor that Australia were even the best batting-line-up of his day.

Pity Lillee was not given this consideration when he played the Test in Sri Lanka

 

[Richard]

I for one certainly do give him said consideration.