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Thread: General Doping Thread

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    International Captain andruid's Avatar
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    General Doping Thread

    Surprised that there isn't already a thread for this, given how this business is everywhere nowadays. Be that as it may, I am mildly shocked and surprised that in Kenya the issue went this high up. Always figured it was mostly crooked chemists taking advantage of desperate middle of the road athletes

    Kenya athletics chiefs provisionally suspended by IAAF commission - BBC Sport
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    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    May as well rename this thread "Official Pakistan Cricket Team Discussion".

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    There was a report couple of days back that the Russians had tried to dope systematically and was asking Russia to be banned from the Olympics.


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    International Captain andruid's Avatar
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    Kenya on the other hand has up till the end of the year to get its act together.

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    Cricketer Of The Year StephenZA's Avatar
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    Query, does anybody know what the rules are on the drugs allowed while injured? I am aware there are banned substances that you cannot use during competition as it helps recovery time etc. However what about when injured and these drugs could take a 9 week lay-off down to 6/3 weeks etc. If you used banned substance to recover quicker form injury but not actually enhance your competitive performance, is this banned? Should it be banned?
    "It is what it is not..."

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    Evil Scotsman Furball's Avatar
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    Of course it's banned. If it helps you recover quicker then it's performance enhancing.
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    Cricketer Of The Year StephenZA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furball View Post
    Of course it's banned. If it helps you recover quicker then it's performance enhancing.
    So what you are effectively saying is if you are an athlete you may not use the best medicine available to recover from major injury and get back to peak physical fitness? My understanding is that "recover quicker" is while in competition (and training) which would give the athlete an advantage eg quicker recovery time during Tour de France stages etc.

    But are we saying to athletes because of your job you must just suffer from injury longer? I would find that a little unfair if, for example, you could not get optimum treatment for your torn hamstring. You will not have the same medications and treatments that are used on a daily basis to help people in the street to recover from injury quicker?.

    I can understand if there are alternatives that are available that would not contravene the rules; but is there no route available for the athlete to request using a banned substance to help recover from injury provided that the substance is out of his system by the time he starts training again and competing again. This whole discussion came up with a Dr friend (normal GP) the other day about what constitutes medical treatment and where does it cross the line into performance enhancing treatment . Are there clear rules on injury recovery or is it taken on a case by case basis?
    Last edited by StephenZA; 24-05-2016 at 12:26 AM.
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    Evil Scotsman Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stphndbsn View Post
    So what you are effectively saying is if you are an athlete you may not use the best medicine available to recover from major injury and get back to peak physical fitness? My understanding is that "recover quicker" is while in competition (and training) which would give the athlete an advantage eg quicker recovery time during Tour de France stages etc.

    But are we saying to athletes because of your job you must just suffer from injury longer? I would find that a little unfair if, for example, you could not get optimum treatment for your torn hamstring. You will not have the same medications and treatments that are used on a daily basis to help people in the street to recover from injury quicker?.

    I can understand if there are alternatives that are available that would not contravene the rules; but is there no route available for the athlete to request using a banned substance to help recover from injury provided that the substance is out of his system by the time he starts training again and competing again. This whole discussion came up with a Dr friend (normal GP) the other day about what constitutes medical treatment and where does it cross the line into performance enhancing treatment . Are there clear rules on injury recovery or is it taken on a case by case basis?
    If that medicine contains banned substances, no.

    Let's say I'm due to compete in the Olympics in July, and for argument's sake I need exactly 3 months of training to get to my peak performance, so I need to undertake my training programme from April. If I'm injured until May, then my preparation will be non-optimal and I won't be at peak performance come the Olympics. Using a banned substance so that I can return to fitness in April is absolutely not ok. There's clearly a performance enhancing aspect there, regardless of whether I've continued to use the drug whilst in training and competition. Athletes don't really have an off season.

    How would you feel if you were Mr Clean, standing with a silver medal around your neck while I'm off parading the gold when you know I was on PEDs to recover from an injury in time to beat you to the gold?
    Last edited by Furball; 24-05-2016 at 01:28 PM.
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    International Coach hendrix's Avatar
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    It also allows you to train harder and for longer knowing that you'll be able to recover faster. Moreover, building muscle and strength itself is actually technically recovery from injury; microscopically tearing muscle fibres, inflammation and repair is the actual process at a physiological level.
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    Cricketer Of The Year StephenZA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    It also allows you to train harder and for longer knowing that you'll be able to recover faster. Moreover, building muscle and strength itself is actually technically recovery from injury; microscopically tearing muscle fibres, inflammation and repair is the actual process at a physiological level.
    Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Furball View Post
    If that medicine contains banned substances, no.

    Let's say I'm due to compete in the Olympics in July, and for argument's sake I need exactly 3 months of training to get to my peak performance, so I need to undertake my training programme from April. If I'm injured until May, then my preparation will be non-optimal and I won't be at peak performance come the Olympics. Using a banned substance so that I can return to fitness in April is absolutely not ok. There's clearly a performance enhancing aspect there, regardless of whether I've continued to use the drug whilst in training and competition. Athletes don't really have an off season.

    How would you feel if you were Mr Clean, standing with a silver medal around your neck while I'm off parading the gold when you know I was on PEDs to recover from an injury in time to beat you to the gold?
    Makes sense. Particularly if the injury is training/competition related. Your point does bring up another aspect for me though. I know that some athletes have operations to try improve recovery time (definite seen this with rugby players). Would that not give a similar effect to what you are saying?

    I realize this is probably quite a complicated issue and I have no personal opinion on this matter, its just me trying to understand some of the nuances. I can see that just banning PED`s for athletes makes sense rather than trying to figure out medical versus performance enhancing. And athletes just have to accept and deal with it as part of their job.

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    Cricketer Of The Year ripper868's Avatar
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    14 Russians (out of 31 positives) who have had Beijing 2008 samples re-tested have allegedly come back positive - medals to change hands 8 years (9 by the time the trials etc are completed) after the event.
    Parmi

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    Evil Scotsman Furball's Avatar
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    How the **** were they not caught at the time?

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    International Coach hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furball View Post
    How the **** were they not caught at the time?
    detection methods constantly catching up

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    Now 23 failed re-tests from the London games in 2012. If I find that any medal ceremony that I saw in the flesh contained an athlete that cheated I will sue the IAAF for emotional trauma.

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